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View Poll Results: Disable Aqua or Not
Yes 12 80.00%
No 3 20.00%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 13th July 2011, 02:45 PM
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Remove AQUA

AQUA has been functionally down since June 19. Their erroneous credit awards have corrupted the BOINC credit system and have invalidated the current DC-Vault stats. They promised to revert to the June 19th project backup. That was on July 8th. Still hasn't been done. I think either the project should be removed or at least suspended until they fix the problem.
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  #2  
Old 13th July 2011, 03:56 PM
DigiK-oz DigiK-oz is offline
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Well...

The credit problem is within BOINC, not AQUA according to several posts on AQUA forum as well as Berkeley. Reverting the credits is useless as long as there are still WU's in progress; They would screw up the credit system all over again. I think that's why it has not been done yet.

In my opinion, AQUA is a victim of erroneous BOINC code here (seems to be in the part of the credit calculation that handles multi-threaded apps, that (only?) AQUA currently uses). They decided to do a credit rollback to get things back to normal (a good decision imho), but need to wait until all units in progress have finished (or at least all test units), or things will start all over again.

They have been hit hard enough by the problem I think. Suspend, OK, but remove, not at this moment. Given the 14-day notice rule here, they'll probably have things back on track before that.

Maybe it is possible to stop loading the AQUA XML files untill there's a fix, and reverting the Vault scores to what they were on june 19 for AQUA?
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Last edited by DigiK-oz; 13th July 2011 at 04:08 PM.
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  #3  
Old 13th July 2011, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiK-oz View Post
Reverting the credits is useless as long as there are still WU's in progress; They would screw up the credit system all over again. I think that's why it has not been done yet.
All they have to do is cancel all current WUs, which is what they should have done a week ago. Since the DB is supposed to be reverted to June 19 anyway, all the WUs in progress are useless anyway. They're just wasting more of everyone's CPU time.

Quote:
In my opinion, AQUA is a victim of erroneous BOINC code here (seems to be in the part of the credit calculation that handles multi-threaded apps, that (only?) AQUA currently uses).
Maybe, maybe not. It's a moot point though. The project is broken and it's invalidating the Vault stats.

Quote:
Suspend, OK, but remove, not at this moment.
Sounds good. The bottom line here is that right now the DC Vault stats are invalid due to a project that is not fixing its stats problem in a timely manner. AQUA has been either MIA or passing out the equivalent of many years worth of credits/WU for nearly a month now. I think it at least needs to be suspended until fixed.

Last edited by Beyond; 13th July 2011 at 10:20 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #4  
Old 14th July 2011, 05:55 AM
DigiK-oz DigiK-oz is offline
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Agree. Although they currently have only 5 WU's still active, there's a lot of nonsense going on there and their forum posts do not give much hope for a solution shortly

I suggest suspending it to get valid Vault rankings again, but keeping a close eye on what happens.
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  #5  
Old 14th July 2011, 08:04 PM
DigiK-oz DigiK-oz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AQUA
News

User, Host, and Team credit were rolled back
I just set the total_credit, expavg_credit, and expavg_time values for users, hosts, and teams to be the same as those of 19-June-2011.

I'll be releasing a few hundred FP and TEST workunits to test the credit system. Please note that BOINC's CreditNew is at work now, and the amount of granted credit will not be the same as before.
Stats sites still show the credit as of July 14th though....let's wait and see
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  #6  
Old 15th July 2011, 04:42 AM
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Razor_FX_II Razor_FX_II is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyond (Ars) View Post
AQUA has been functionally down since June 19. Their erroneous credit awards have corrupted the BOINC credit system and have invalidated the current DC-Vault stats. They promised to revert to the June 19th project backup. That was on July 8th. Still hasn't been done. I think either the project should be removed or at least suspended until they fix the problem.
I have to agree with Beyond on this one. This is playing out badly in the DC-Vault stats and I honestly don't think it will ever be set right.
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  #7  
Old 15th July 2011, 08:37 AM
DigiK-oz DigiK-oz is offline
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Given the fact that they are currently testing the BOINC creditnew system (which is, in my opinion, hopelessly flawed and in it's very early alpha-stage of development), and the fact that they apparently have halted their stats-export (and the last one still holds the invalid credits), I have to agree. Suspend and 14 day notice for AQUA
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  #8  
Old 15th July 2011, 03:45 PM
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Yes, it's sad but they won't listen to the advice of anyone. Now, despite being warned: instead of rolling back and doing a stats export they've disabled their stats export at a point where the billions of unearned credits are locked in place. It just seems like they don't care
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  #9  
Old 15th July 2011, 08:41 PM
Ungelovende Ungelovende is offline
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I think someone should arrange a poll!

btw: the aqua stats was updated some hours ago
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  #10  
Old 15th July 2011, 10:27 PM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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Poll added.. If you can invite a few of your team mates to vote, that would be good..
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  #11  
Old 17th July 2011, 04:25 PM
VictordeHolland VictordeHolland is offline
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Remove Aqua until they have sorted out their credit issues. Once they are sorted out, we can decide whether to include them in the stats again or not. In my opinion they can only be included again if they remove/delete all the stats which have invalid credits in them.
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  #12  
Old 18th July 2011, 01:30 PM
DigiK-oz DigiK-oz is offline
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The credit issue appears to have been fixed. So yes, they screwed up in not cleaning their mess quickly enough. The mess itself was, however, not (or not only) their fault. Mixed feelings, but after some doubts I voted NO.
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  #13  
Old 19th July 2011, 02:24 PM
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AQUA is STILL down, as in no work for the last month:

http://aqua.dwavesys.com/server_status.php

It also soumds like they'll be instituting creditnew (at much lower credit levels). If this happens AQUA rankings will essentially be locked in place. Because of the massive credits that were previously awarded there will be little movement possible for new teams or older teams trying to advance. Another essentially dead project to make the Vault competition stale
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  #14  
Old 21st July 2011, 03:08 AM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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So we are voting to remove it?
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  #15  
Old 21st July 2011, 06:14 PM
DigiK-oz DigiK-oz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyond (Ars) View Post
AQUA is STILL down, as in no work for the last month:

http://aqua.dwavesys.com/server_status.php

It also soumds like they'll be instituting creditnew (at much lower credit levels). If this happens AQUA rankings will essentially be locked in place. Because of the massive credits that were previously awarded there will be little movement possible for new teams or older teams trying to advance. Another essentially dead project to make the Vault competition stale
True, but if having no work for a month is an issue, we might as well kill Lattice And as for the creditnew, I oppose to the whole concept...But we might end up with no BOINC projects if that is a criterium to remove. As far as I'm concerned, AQUA meets all requirements for inclusion, and doesn't meet any requirement for exclusion.

Last edited by DigiK-oz; 21st July 2011 at 06:16 PM.
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