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  #1  
Old 15th July 2009, 10:39 AM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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Acceptance of "Gift-giving" Projects(?)

OK.. So we are having a good conversation regarding Commercial and No-Commercial projects being added to the DC-Vault..
See here if you havent read the thread --> HERE <--

So far we have talked about a number of Pros and Cons, Advantages and disadvantages regarding the Commercial projects.

We still haven't been able to nailed down what we as a DC community classify as "Commercial".

It seems the majority of the crunchers that voted and posted, don't like the idea of companies making money and not giving anything back apart from points, a score..

So to add some more flavor to the conversation.

Would it or wouldn't it be the same for the projects that offer a cash reward to a cruncher or crunchers that find a solutions to the said problem

So this raises a possible problem, on one hand we have Companies making money from our computers hard work, selling results to the highest bidder.

Soooooo.....

should we exclude projects that donate cash to a person/cruncher that finds "something"(prime or whatever it may be)?

Seems people could say that they have an unfair advantage over other "solution" finding projects, i.e: people will crunch it in hope they get money.


This thread is about Projects that donate more then just points for the work units, i.e: Cash to Crunchers ONLY Please
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  #2  
Old 15th July 2009, 12:12 PM
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KAMCOBILL KAMCOBILL is offline
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Of course they should allowed in the Vault. They are always active. Most projects that are inactive are jumped on right away in the Vault project removal thread to be removed. Several of such projects.that I know of, always have work. I don't pay too much attention how many there are for sure, but it seems like in every forum of a project that doesn't have work everybody is crying for work.

It shouldn't matter whether they are classified as commercial, donation oriented, or pay for results. SETI @ Home has a donate link in Boinc Manager (only one I noticed). I don't see any project that doesn't get some benefits in one way or another.

As for the electric cost, It doesn't cost any more to run 100 projects than it does to run one. It cost me $150/month for electric but that is noway near the thousands I have in computers. But, that's what I choose to do.

I only have seen one project that I didn't really like to see in the Vault (due to fairness) and that was GPUGRID. It started out as PS3 project and added the GPU. To run it as GPU nVidia Video is required at $70 a clip. So, for me to competative it would cost about $1500. Some don't have the money to spend so they can run a project.

All-In-All I don't care how much a project could pay, no one could recoup.

Of course, This is my Two Cents. I would guess that out of fitty people there would be nearly 50 different opinions.

Since we all are here for the fun and games, it really doesn't matter.

Keep on Cruncing We're all in it together

Last edited by KAMCOBILL; 20th July 2009 at 06:11 AM. Reason: Sig :D
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  #3  
Old 18th July 2009, 11:18 AM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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OK.. This is extremely interesting... I find it extremely strange.. 2 days after posting a thread regarding commercial projects, there was a great deal of posts for and against.

It has been 3 days and there has been 1 post, just 1. and you cant say you havent seen it or it slipped away.. 220 reads 1 reply

So basically this tells me(and only me) that the poll and posts regarding commercial projects were more about yourselves and had nothing to do with someone else making money off the work we have done.

It tells me, if a project puts your name up in lights and offers you money if your name gets there, you would be very happy.. Just as long as you are getting something.

Before I close this thread in a few days. I want you to read this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyles
I believe any successful research from any DC project will eventually make someone a lot of money, of which the cruncher will see squat. Perhaps those upfront about it are being more honest with their intentions? I will crunch for what I feel will benefit us (and by that of course I mean "me") most. A cure for the flu? Damn right! The cold? Count me in! No more hangovers? Watch my stats on THAT one! I'm sure we all recall the days when we crunched for the camaraderie, taunts and fun of it and our pay was some decent reliable stats with which to brag and taunt about. Those days are gone for me and now I would like to think I am doing my bit. It is the project owner or sponsor putting up the big bucks so hey, I say good on them for utilising a resource. Lets encourage beneficial research as a priority and worry about money second. My vote - if it counts - is to allow them.
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Old 18th July 2009, 11:49 AM
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opyrt opyrt is offline
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Well... It could be that people are fed up discussing something just to have an admin come in and write "you're not going to agree" and dismiss the whole discussion. It kind of makes it pointless to discuss something.
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  #5  
Old 18th July 2009, 12:24 PM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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Come on people.. I really want to hear from the people that posted that they didnt want commercial projects in the Vault because they made money of us
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  #6  
Old 18th July 2009, 12:26 PM
Zachariassen Zachariassen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opyrt View Post
Well... It could be that people are fed up discussing something just to have an admin come in and write "you're not going to agree" and dismiss the whole discussion. It kind of makes it pointless to discuss something.
Second that...
...for what it's worth (probably nothing) - my opinion is (as I stated a couple of times) - If a project is commercial - I'll treat them as commercial - and I want to get paid for the work I'm doing for them... simple as that...
If they don't wanna pay me (one way or another) - I don't run'em - I DO NOT accept anyone using my computertime just to make'em self rich without giving something back (and frankly - I don't understand why anyone do accept that)
...and If the project is non-commercial - I'll treat'em as non-commercial and I'll donate my computertime to them - for free...
Is a 'gift-giving' project commercial ? Maybe - but hey - they pay me (if I'm the lucky one), so then it's fine by me...
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  #7  
Old 18th July 2009, 12:30 PM
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Sport Sport is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opyrt View Post
Well... It could be that people are fed up discussing something just to have an admin come in and write "you're not going to agree" and dismiss the whole discussion. It kind of makes it pointless to discuss something.
It doesn't matter which side of the fence I'm on...I'm tired of discussing this issue ...I'll crunch any project I choose ..vault or not
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  #8  
Old 18th July 2009, 02:59 PM
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Yankton Yankton is offline
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Much of what we do will make someone money, my driving force is how the results get treated. I want to see results in the public domain, particularly as the public is providing those results. As for gifts, I have no issues with it. It may drive some traffic to the project and could otherwise compensate for the results not being public in which case it becomes a question of whether the gift is enough to compensate for hardware and electrical and cooling costs if the results aren't public. If they are public and they are offering gifts on top of that, then it is all cheddar.

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  #9  
Old 18th July 2009, 10:56 PM
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It's wonderful to see reason rising over blind emotion.
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  #10  
Old 19th July 2009, 05:30 AM
umccullough umccullough is offline
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As with the other discussions, I don't think projects should be excluded from the vault based on moral issues.

I may choose not to crunch a project, but that is my choice, knowing that the consequences are that my stats hurt my overall vault score. There are already a handful of vault projects I will not/cannot crunch, and I recognize this as a choice I have made
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  #11  
Old 19th July 2009, 08:30 PM
fractal fractal is offline
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Can we please have a freeking signature size limit! I stopped reading your thread after four pages of bill's signature. What a way to crap a thread.

I may have had an opinion on the topic, but it got lost in the spam, spam, spam..
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  #12  
Old 21st July 2009, 10:15 AM
Zachariassen Zachariassen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyond (Ars) View Post
It's wonderful to see reason rising over blind emotion.
Just out of curiousity - who gives you reason and who stands for blind emotion in this thread ?
Well - don't bother to answer, we all know what direction you were looking...

I'd only wish it was possible to discuss something here at the Vault without all these small insultations everywere...
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  #13  
Old 21st July 2009, 02:32 PM
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I thought it was a compliment...
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  #14  
Old 21st July 2009, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyond (Ars) View Post
I thought it was a compliment...
I didn't see where anyone should be offended
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  #15  
Old 22nd July 2009, 05:06 PM
DigiK-oz DigiK-oz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post

So basically this tells me(and only me) that the poll and posts regarding commercial projects were more about yourselves and had nothing to do with someone else making money off the work we have done.
You're free to jump to false conclusions. As for me, I got a little tired of the AQUA and commercial discussions, as the arguments pro and con kept going round in circles (including mine, I guess). Also most arguments that came up in commercial would also apply to the projects this thread is about, I think.

Maybe, Vault-rankings should exclude the lowest, let's say, 5 projects for each team. That way, teams can ignore projects they don't like and still be competitive.

Last edited by DigiK-oz; 22nd July 2009 at 08:01 PM.
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