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View Poll Results: Should Commercial be accepted and added to the DC-Vault?
YES and why 8 28.57%
NO and Why 20 71.43%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 9th July 2009, 08:41 PM
whizbang whizbang is offline
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It isn't just a thin line separating commercial and non-commercial projects: it's a hazy gray cloud. Any project should have its full intentions, funding, and findings made fully available. As long as those goals are met, I have no problem with any project, in the Vault or otherwise. My vote then would be yes, allow commercial projects in the Vault, but with the above reservations.
  #32  
Old 12th July 2009, 07:01 AM
Accs Accs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
As I see it a commercial project would be for profit.
Projects that gain financial benefits from donations, grants etc, etc are not commercial.

Should we define "What Commercial IS first?
What is a Commercial project. Do we classify a project commercial if they receive regular donations to keep it running?
Do we classify a project a commercial project if they run a TV/paper/net ad? or have an interview and it is published?
I can agree with your initial definitions, if we clarify the profit portion. I believe a project is commercial if the people running the project intend to make a profit selling (or otherwise distributing) the results. I believe intent is the key issue here. Public release of the results can be considered to be a reasonable indication that the intent isn't primarily profit.

By this definition, FAH doesn't qualify as commercial, even though the drug companies could (and do) profit from the results. I believe that this is valid, as the project results are openly available, and not limited to a single consumer. There are a ton of other projects that are pure research, and are funded by various Universities or Governments. The funding that paid for the servers and labor to create & maintain the project were not intended to create profit for the funding agencies, or the project. Although there is income involved, the profit here is minimal, and I would consider projects like this to be non-commercial.

As another example, M-12 IS commercial by this definition, and I believe that too is valid. The people running that project intend to make a profit from the results, and will not make the accumulated search data openly available. Alexc commented that he had a lot of work to be done for the project. So what. The goal of the project is to make him, and his investors, a pile of money (think Google). This is definitely commercial, and has no place in something like the DC-Vault. It needs to go the way of MoneyBee (another blatantly commercial project).

Advertising for donations isn't commercial. Advertising for donations far in excess of what's required to run the project is.

I voted NO because your definition was VERY close to mine, and was one I could accept.

Last edited by Accs; 12th July 2009 at 07:07 AM.
  #33  
Old 12th July 2009, 11:00 AM
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opyrt opyrt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Accs View Post
The goal of the project is to make him, and his investors, a pile of money (think Google).
You state this as a fact... please show us the source for this. If you are right, I totally agree that MJ12 should be removed. However, I doubt you are right.
  #34  
Old 12th July 2009, 04:07 PM
Accs Accs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opyrt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accs View Post
The goal of the project is to make him, and his investors, a pile of money (think Google).
You state this as a fact... please show us the source for this. If you are right, I totally agree that MJ12 should be removed.
My intent was to state this as a high probability. The example of Google was gives as a method for the profit (click-through ads), not as an example of ths size of the pile of money.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
  #35  
Old 12th July 2009, 04:32 PM
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If I wanted to make money I'd definately do something else - probably programming apps for iPhone: much easier, and far more likely to turn up a profit

Our commercial side actually makes data publicly available - you can verify your site and get data for free: http://www.majesticseo.com - this search engine is public, it actually helps our project have better relationships with webmasters and providing them free alternative to Google.

Google earns money by having ads - we don't do that and we can't do that because it requires first to build highly competitive search engine to gain real user traffic.

While MJ12 may end up making a profit (right now all revenues are reinvested into hardware and R&D) due to the fact that we allocated substantial number of shares to the entity (Distributed Computing Partners) that will be owned by project members it means that effectively they became shareholders: I don't think there is any other distributed project that does something like it.

I appreciate that our project won't satisfy everyone - I don't know what I could do better than what I've done so far: Google has got 1000 times more resources than us in pretty much every aspect, we are already handicapped in a very big way.

Last edited by alexc; 12th July 2009 at 05:08 PM.
  #36  
Old 12th July 2009, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexc View Post
If I wanted to make money I'd definately do something else - probably programming apps for iPhone: much easier, and far more likely to turn up a profit

Our commercial side actually makes data publicly available - you can verify your site and get data for free: http://www.majesticseo.com - this search engine is public, it actually helps our project have better relationships with webmasters and providing them free alternative to Google.

Google earns money by having ads - we don't do that and we can't do that because it requires first to build highly competitive search engine to gain real user traffic.

While MJ12 may end up making a profit (right now all revenues are reinvested into hardware and R&D) due to the fact that we allocated substantial number of shares to the entity (Distributed Computing Partners) that will be owned by project members it means that effectively they became shareholders: I don't think there is any other distributed project that does something like it.

I appreciate that our project won't satisfy everyone - I don't know what I could do better than what I've done so far: Google has got 1000 times more resources than us in pretty much every aspect, we are already handicapped in a very big way.
Alex;
I'm not sure I have the bandwidth to support you and yours personally (with the # of machines running the # of projects/WU's , I have running on a single IP). As for myself, I appreciate your candor ....should Majestic come under fire you can be assured I'll fight for you. You've made a public declaration and announcement, you are statesman enough to address us on our own turf; for these things I salute you and will support your endeavor as best I can...

Sport... Admin@ DC-Vault....Admin&founder@ SeriousCrunchers
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Last edited by Sport; 12th July 2009 at 07:17 PM.
  #37  
Old 12th July 2009, 07:07 PM
alexc alexc is offline
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Much appreciated!

I understand general sentiment against purely commercial projects - especially when they hide information or just want to get a free ride basically, I would not have liked to run such project myself and I feel that we found the right balance (if not a solution) to a very difficult problem. Life unfortunately is not perfect - people have to earn their living, and for myself I did not want to do things that would distract me from the project.

I am very happy that right now the course of action that we took (and this was discussed in great detail with the members of the project - lots of threads on our forum), is not only helping us develop further rather than shut down but also we are pioneering new model whereby people who helped make the project reality benefit in form of shareholding - they become real partners in it, not just "cheap resource" as some other companies might view it
  #38  
Old 12th July 2009, 07:21 PM
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well stated..again you have my support, for what little it is worth

Just the fact that you are willing to acknowledge those of us in the trenches....means a lot to us

Last edited by Sport; 12th July 2009 at 07:28 PM.
  #39  
Old 12th July 2009, 09:12 PM
Ars-outlnder Ars-outlnder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexc View Post
While MJ12 may end up making a profit (right now all revenues are reinvested into hardware and R&D) due to the fact that we allocated substantial number of shares to the entity (Distributed Computing Partners) that will be owned by project members it means that effectively they became shareholders: I don't think there is any other distributed project that does something like it.

So how many shares do I have??

http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?p...=maj&name=1014
  #40  
Old 12th July 2009, 11:20 PM
alexc alexc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outlnder (Ars) View Post
Here is more information on mechanics how it will work:

http://www.majestic12.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3484

Actual formulae on how shares will be split among members is yet to be approved by community, here is relevant thread:

http://www.majestic12.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3590

So, I can't tell you right now how big your piece of pie will be, but looking at 250 mln urls you crawled I think it won't be small
  #41  
Old 13th July 2009, 12:05 AM
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cswchan cswchan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outlnder (Ars) View Post

That should mean i have more shares than you...

Just kidding outlnder...

http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?p...j=maj&name=640

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  #42  
Old 13th July 2009, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cswchan View Post
That should mean i have more shares than you...

Just kidding outlnder...

http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?p...j=maj&name=640

I just looked at those stats..."HOLYSH#T"!!!! I am impressed,and honored to call you a friend
  #43  
Old 13th July 2009, 03:23 AM
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cswchan cswchan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sport View Post
I just looked at those stats..."HOLYSH#T"!!!! I am impressed,and honored to call you a friend
You should take a look at pwguru's scores if you're impressed by mine...

http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?p...j=maj&team=154

  #44  
Old 13th July 2009, 04:25 AM
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KAMCOBILL KAMCOBILL is offline
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I couldn't resist http://www.majestic12.co.uk/projects...nfo.php?id=432 WOW
  #45  
Old 13th July 2009, 04:32 AM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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OK this thread went off topic really quick..

Seems there is no clear case of what IS or ISNT a commercial project.. And I don't think we all combined could clearly define what is or isnt a commercial project.

So....

Until we can actually nail down what commercial means the Vault will remain open to any project that meets the requirements.
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