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View Poll Results: Add POGS to the Vault
Yes 15 93.75%
No 1 6.25%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 21st February 2012, 07:07 PM
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Ninja Jotohei
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theSkyNet

For starters, I really don't want to propose to add this one. It is a relatively new project though. While browsing the alliance ladder there, I recognised some other well known teams from the Vault. So in fact I would like to ask what others think about this one because to me it seems more like a scam.

Stats and a lot of names seem to be fake. You can't see what the client is actually doing. The spokesperson on their forum is a woman, this is not misogyny but it is not very likely. There are no reports of work progress on their site. Etc.

URL: http://www.theskynet.org/

Last edited by iconized; 21st February 2012 at 07:11 PM.
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  #2  
Old 22nd February 2012, 09:35 AM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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http://www.team-ninja.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=50040

Best part is... It's an Australian project..... w00t

AUSSIE, AUSSIE, AUSSIE..

Thanks for posting dude..
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  #3  
Old 22nd February 2012, 02:14 PM
Meadmaker Meadmaker is offline
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It runs in the background nicely, but is not compatible with DIMES.
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  #4  
Old 23rd February 2012, 07:11 PM
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Ninja Jotohei
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I have to agree this project might have great potential. Especially if the SKA-grid gets build Down Under. On the other hand, the project is quite beta. I don't know if the team statistics can be parsed, but the figures in the alliance ladders over there are still plagued by bugs. For example some of my credits are not showing in the alliance roster.

The things I don't like:
- The client itself. If you use the standard installer package, a service will be created that runs the client 24/7. If you want to activate more clients, you need to do this manually. The client uses Java so probably, like Dimes, it keeps eating more and more memory overtime and each Java instance starts with almost 500 MB (takes a couple of minutes). (Windows x64)
- You can't see what the client is doing. It might be processing data or it might be benchmarking. You also can't see what kind of data is being processed, there are no progress reports on their website. A question from me on the forum there, resulted in the answer: Look here http://www.theskynet.org/resources/data
- The credit system. You get 1 credit per 15 minutes for being connected. If data is being processed, you get an additional 1 credit per 15 MB. Because you get credit for doing nothing, they have to limit the amount of clients that you are allowed to run. Currently it is 1 client per (hyper threaded) core. To check this, they run the aforementioned benchmark. So in case their is no work the client is wasting my CPU resources that I could use on other projects.

Since I can't determine what the client is actually doing, I started this topic. I might be doing work from third parties and they might get paid for that.

Last edited by iconized; 23rd February 2012 at 07:18 PM.
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  #5  
Old 23rd February 2012, 11:50 PM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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There are a number of threads and posts on the forum that suggest they are focussing on getting the results. It is on their list to create a multi core and GPU, for hardcore crunchers.

This thread was really a shameless ad for the Vault
http://www.theskynet.org/account/for...s-dc-vault-com

I was hoping to get some extra teams involved in the Vault..


Reading the FAQ. It seems that they may have excluded themselves or possibly.

Quote:
How can I use all of my computer’s “grunt” to contribute to theSkyNet more

theSkyNet is about lots of computers each doing a little, we’re not about pushing the processors of theSkyNet community too hard, but recognise that some ‘Power Users’ are keen to contribute to process as much data as their machines can handle. In the future we’ll be looking at ways to make this possible without skewing the leader boards and rankings of our standard users.
So, maybe this means 2 set's of stats?

But I will say, it is some time off being added to the Vault.(As much as I want the first Aussie project included.heheh)
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  #6  
Old 29th February 2012, 10:16 AM
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Ageotas Ageotas is offline
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Hi guys, my name is Tim and I am one of the Astrophysicists behind theSkyNet. I have made an account here so that I can talk directly to the DC-Vault members and get both your opinions and views on theSkyNet so far, and to hopefully answer any questions you might have about the project. We recognise groups like you not only as power users, but also as veterans who have an unrivalled amount of experience with distributed computing projects like theSkyNet, so your voices mean a lot to us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iconized View Post
...because to me it seems more like a scam.

Stats and a lot of names seem to be fake. You can't see what the client is actually doing. The spokesperson on their forum is a woman, this is not misogyny but it is not very likely. There are no reports of work progress on their site. Etc.
As has been said already, definitely not a scam. In fact, we aim for as much transparency as possible so you guys can see exactly what it is that we do and how you are all contributing. So far the processed data from theSkyNet has been old data from projects that have already been completed through other systems (usually supercomputers). The reason we are running old data is to make sure that theSkyNet is producing scientifically sensible results. There is no point getting you all to process a petabyte of data if the recompilation produces a garbled mess. When we start running new and exciting data, we will let you know. That said, in our recent mailout we did provide some of the coverage images that have been produced so far for you all to see.

Also, Kirsten being a woman shouldn't have any effect on the validity of the project. In fact, Astronomy and Astrophysics probably has the most balanced gender population out of all of the sciences; about 50:50 in most places. While Kirsten is the only female on theSkyNet team at the moment, there are a large number of women who work with us at the International Centre for Radio Astronomy Research (ICRAR).


Quote:
Originally Posted by iconized View Post
I have to agree this project might have great potential. Especially if the SKA-grid gets build Down Under.
I think so too

Quote:
Originally Posted by iconized View Post
On the other hand, the project is quite beta. I don't know if the team statistics can be parsed, but the figures in the alliance ladders over there are still plagued by bugs. For example some of my credits are not showing in the alliance roster.

The things I don't like:
- The client itself. If you use the standard installer package, a service will be created that runs the client 24/7. If you want to activate more clients, you need to do this manually. The client uses Java so probably, like Dimes, it keeps eating more and more memory overtime and each Java instance starts with almost 500 MB (takes a couple of minutes). (Windows x64)
- You can't see what the client is doing. It might be processing data or it might be benchmarking. You also can't see what kind of data is being processed, there are no progress reports on their website. A question from me on the forum there, resulted in the answer: Look here http://www.theskynet.org/resources/data
- The credit system. You get 1 credit per 15 minutes for being connected. If data is being processed, you get an additional 1 credit per 15 MB. Because you get credit for doing nothing, they have to limit the amount of clients that you are allowed to run. Currently it is 1 client per (hyper threaded) core. To check this, they run the aforementioned benchmark. So in case their is no work the client is wasting my CPU resources that I could use on other projects.

Since I can't determine what the client is actually doing, I started this topic. I might be doing work from third parties and they might get paid for that.
The bugs in the ladders are almost all squished now. Rest assured the serverside is recording things perfectly; the bugs are somewhere between the backend and the frontend that displays them.

Believe it or not, the code runs slightly faster on Java than it does on C, and this has been double, triple, and quadruple checked by some of the best programmers we know (and we know some seriously amazing programmers!). Furthermore, we found that we benefit more from having thousands of casual users than a few power users, which is why it has not been optimised for multiple instances and virtualisation. I know this isn't ideal for you guys, but ultimately we need to do what is best for the science.

The benchmarks are very short and happen very infrequently; 99% of the time you will be processing data. The fact that you cannot see what is going on is a result of our strict security measures, and is actually designed to protect you, not to hamper you. This said, we are working on a better GUI (well, a GUI at all, really) so that you can get a better reading on what is happening underneath the hood. Trust me, we are all pretty big geeks, and if we can graph something or compare lists of numbers, we will, and we know that is what you guys want too!

The algorithm for calculating credits is actually a lot more complicated than 15x[time]+15x[mb] (which, interestingly enough, was what we used during the internal beta). You are, however, correct that both time connected and amount uploaded are both factors in the credits calculation.

Also, we are most certainly NOT hiring theSkyNet to external sources for money. The entire project is not for profit and is only used within the scientific community that we have explicitly stated on the site and in all our literature. I cannot stress enough that theSkyNet is not for sale to anyone, and that we are vehemently committed to transparency and honesty with everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
There are a number of threads and posts on the forum that suggest they are focussing on getting the results. It is on their list to create a multi core and GPU, for hardcore crunchers.

This thread was really a shameless ad for the Vault
http://www.theskynet.org/account/for...s-dc-vault-com

I was hoping to get some extra teams involved in the Vault..

Reading the FAQ. It seems that they may have excluded themselves or possibly.

So, maybe this means 2 set's of stats?

But I will say, it is some time off being added to the Vault.(As much as I want the first Aussie project included.heheh)
No, there will only ever be one rubric for assigning statistics, but there will be multiple ways of displaying these statistics so that power users can compare against each other, and casual users can compare against each other.

Please keep in mind that theSkyNet is still a brand new project, attempting distribute computing in a way that has never been done before, and for that we ask for your patience and understanding, and offer in return the chance to be an integral part of something amazing!


I will be checking back as often as I can, so please feel free to ask me anything. I will do my best to answer! (though, some things I cannot talk about for what I hope are obvious reasons :P)

Yours most sincerely,

Tim Young
(AKA Ageotas)
(AKA OptimusTim)

##EDIT##
Woah! Wall of text crits for 9000! Sorry about that :P

Last edited by Ageotas; 29th February 2012 at 10:17 AM. Reason: Apology addendum
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  #7  
Old 29th February 2012, 06:49 PM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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Tim,

Thank you so much for stopping by... Man... You really made a grand entrance on your first post.. Wowzar.
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  #8  
Old 29th February 2012, 10:06 PM
Meadmaker Meadmaker is offline
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I am one of the founding members of this project, and I have to say that a lot of much older projects could learn from the team behind Skynet.

Their openness and interest in feedback from the members is second to none.
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  #9  
Old 1st March 2012, 09:12 PM
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Beyond Beyond is offline
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Sounds like an interesting project. The name has an interesting background:

Skynet may refer to:
Skynet (satellite), a UK military communications system
Skynet (Terminator), the fictional computer network who is the primary antagonist in the Terminator series of films
SkyNET, a 1996 PC game based on The Terminator film series

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynet

Hopefully we won't be drowned in liquid metal terminators


because my horse doesn't seem too interested in getting away -
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  #10  
Old 2nd March 2012, 10:46 AM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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We will just stick with this point
theSkyNet, a distributed computing platform for radio astronomy data produced by the Australian Square Kilometre Array Pathfinder

lol
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  #11  
Old 2nd March 2012, 06:43 PM
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Ninja Jotohei
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Thank you Ageotas for your explanation. I wish the project all the best and also hope for some improvements of the client. As for the Square Kilometre Array, I would like to see it build in the Netherlands but I expect that the weather conditions over here are not suitable. So good luck winning the competition! Btw when can we expect to start processing data from the Australian Square Kilometre Array Pathfinder?
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  #12  
Old 4th March 2012, 11:01 PM
steinrar steinrar is offline
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Hi
Ageotas, do you think this project is ready to be included in the vault ?. Not to much discussion always about including a project, but more about excluding a project - Don't get me wrong here . I say include those project where we are ahead of Ars (Joke ) Project included in the Vault must expect to be hit "hard" I should think. If project is ready for this or not is hard to tell, but one way to find out is to include project in the Vault (If other vault criteria is met). That is if people hosting project are communicating and answer to what us "user" are asking. (Ref Wie which is gone for now as it seems "dead" except but issuing WU). I'm don't know how much work it is involved including/excluding a project into DC-Vault with stats and everything, but I hope I'm not insulting anyone . Let users/project admins share their opinions in forum and take it from there. Hopefully more more projects will be added to the Vault, and removed if criteria above is not met
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  #13  
Old 7th March 2012, 03:06 PM
DigiK-oz DigiK-oz is offline
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From what I can see, skynet has no exported statistics yet (?), a must for inclusion in DC-Vault. I already suggested they start exporting stats at their forum.
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  #14  
Old 9th March 2012, 01:00 AM
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Ageotas Ageotas is offline
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The option to export stats is a big priority for us. We are all massive stats fans too, and we know that the people who use theSkyNet heavily are going to be the kind of people who want to know the third differential of their contribution that week

As soon as this is available, I will let you guys know. On that note, are there any stats in particular you would like access to? We already have a bunch of metrics that are shortlisted for inclusion, but it would be good to hear from users in case we have missed something glaringly obvious :P

The stats package will also be available as an applet within the dashboard so that you can quickly graph and compare metrics without the need for any actual data fiddling on your behalf, but I am pushing strongly for the raw data to be available too.


Also, yes, there was a lot of inspiration from the Terminator movies. I for one am a big fan
(Yes, even of the Sarah Connor Chronicles! :O)


As for the SKA being in the Netherlands; the honest answer is that your country is too small! The high density cluster that forms the centre of the Australian proposed SKA is larger than the Netherlands entire landmass! Furthermore, in Europe in general there is simply too much RF noise. Overcast weather doesn't affect us anywhere near as much as nearby mobile telephone towers, above ground power transmission cables, or even the unshielded alternators in some cars! So obviously we couldn't put the SKA in the Netherlands, because from what I hear, you guys have an absolutely AMAZING mobile coverage :P
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  #15  
Old 9th March 2012, 12:32 PM
DigiK-oz DigiK-oz is offline
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Well, the bare minimum for exportable stats I think would be :

For teams:
teamid-team name-total points

For users it would be slightly more complex, as a user can change their team affiliation over time.
userid-user name-teamid-total points

There could therefore be multiple lines per user (the stats for BOINC projects have overlooked this, making it a pain in the ass to produce 100% accurate listings). If a user first joins as a lone user, later joins team a, and then decides to switch to team b, it would be
1-skynet user-NULL-1000
1-skynet user-345-500
1-skynet user-789-3000

Then there's users changing their nickname etc. just make sure the exported stats can handle these situations please

Of course, add anything you like to this framework, like subprojects if any,rewards earned or whatever.

Regards,
DigiK-oz
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