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Old 5th August 2002, 12:26 PM
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Post Electro-magnetic power source, scam or world energy solution?

NOTE: For comparison purposes, R15 = 1 or $1.50, approx.

It is either one of the greatest inventions of all time or a swindle of breathtaking proportions.

A group of Somerset West businessmen claim they have invented an electro-magnetic power source that could radically change the way people generate electricity across the world.

And while they say it is not a perpetual motion machine, it comes close to it.

They are raising large sums of money from members of the public on the strength of it.

But electrical engineers consulted by Weekend Argus expressed scepticism over the "invention" which purports to use electro-magnetic fields to generate electricity.

The businessmen say they have already concluded an agreement with an American electricity supplier in Nevada who will import their revolutionary mini electro-magnetic power modules to supply electricity.

They claim the extreme precision needed to manufacture the units makes them uneconomical to sell locally. The units will be exported to the United States.

But while the businessmen say they already have a manufacturing contract with an American company, they are also seeking local people to invest a minimum of R200 000 each to fund the construction of a factory to build the mini power plants.

A member of the elite Scorpions investigative unit this week contacted Weekend Argus because they are concerned about the project.

Said an investigator: "We are not questioning the validity of the claims that these people are making, but our information is that they are trying to raise money and we just want to make sure that potential investors are protected."

When Weekend Argus approached Gridcon Power SA Pty, the company behind the scheme, they said their invention was unique and above board, but they were concerned that premature publicity could have a negative impact on their plan to list the company on the stock exchange.

However, they later agreed to Weekend Argus inspecting their "invention" and laboratory.

So, how does it work?

According to inventor Bill Cronje, who says he has already registered four provisional patents, the existence of electro-magnetic fields around appliances such as TVs, computers, air conditioners, hairdriers and other electric motor-driven devices, plays a crucial role in the success of the electro-magnetic power source.

Because of the "sensitivity" of the technology and their fear of industrial espionage, the businessmen said they were hesitant to give specific details of the exact and intricate workings of the invention.

They took Weekend Argus to an impressive-looking laboratory in Somerset West, where various brightly coloured devices with high voltage signs painted on them stood at neatly spaced intervals.

Lots of coils of bright electrical wire, shiny magnets and other impressive scientific-looking devices were placed all around the modern "lab".

Big photographs of the various stages of development of the project hung on the walls and a kettle, a TV, an air conditioner and a video player stood nearby.

These devices would later be plugged in to show how the electro-magnetic field generator worked.

In-house legal adviser Ludi Strydom said: "We have ploughed a lot of money into this project. We have been at it since 1996."

He said the main funder of the project, Frank Taylor, was a very private person who greatly admired aviation pioneer and reclusive eccentric Howard Hughes.

Strydom said that, like Hughes, Taylor did not want publicity.

Taylor is a former crop sprayer who lives in a mansion in Somerset West.

In the "lab", Cronje turned off the Eskom power at the mains.

He pointed out that the electro-magnetic module had no other power source. They lifted it off the ground: "Look, there are no hidden wires," said Cronje and partners.

Then they switched on the shiny blue module. There was no sound, but a bank of 36 lights connected to the device immediately lit up.

Pointing to a gauge, Cronje said the fact that the power did not drop while the lights were on was a clear indication that the secret device, which was covered with black masking tape, was not a battery.

This tape was never removed and whatever it covered remains a mystery.

But Cronje said: "If it was a battery the gauge would clearly show how the power was dwindling while the lights remained on.

"We must keep in mind that there is some proprietary information which we cannot disclose at this stage. However, in simple terms, an electro-magnetic field is generated with sufficient energy to fuel a ceremalac cell through high voltage which in turn generates current at the end of each process.

"At the moment the static electro-magnetic generator can only supply low power for devices with high electro-magnetic fields such as computers, TVs, laptops and other similar devices.

"These devices in themselves feed the electro-magnetic field requirements of the module which then again turns it into current."

Cronje said that, by multi-stacking such static electro-magnetic modules, one would be able to
multiply the end result, supplying a substantial current to meet the required load.

"Theoretically one would be able to estimate how much of an electric magnetic field is being generated in a particular dwelling and would then be able to calculate how many electro-magnetic field modules would be needed to supply power to such a house or houses.

"But it must be remembered that there are limits to what we are capable of doing at this point."

He later showed Weekend Argus what he said was a portable module with three solid brass legs. He plugged it into a field and connected a fan which merrily started humming along at full speed.

"You just earth it by pushing it into the ground and switch it on," said Cronje.

Strydom said: "When the storm knocked out the power recently, we just plugged it in the lawn and made some coffee."

Cronje said the Weekend Argus had been shown intellectual and proprietary information in "an open inspection".

He said the visit to the "lab" by the newspaper had been sparked by a "report from a disgruntled potential investor who offered R500 000 in hard cash and was turned away by the company". Weekend Argus has not had any dealings with this "disgruntled investor".

So does it really work? Only an expert will be able to tell - and only after the black masking tape covering the "invention" has been removed. Strydom said the company would in due course give a full explanation of how it intended raising money to fund the project.

By Willem Steenkamp, Cape Argus, SOUTH AFRICA
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  #2  
Old 5th August 2002, 05:37 PM
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Bollocks.
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Old 5th August 2002, 06:21 PM
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Another one for the "I'll believe it when I see it" list.

I can't see how you can regenerate any useful amount of energy from stray fields in everyday situations, unless they know something I don't. Well, they probably do know something I don't, but if it's how to get more energy or just a load of money from unsuspecting victims is another matter.

Just have to remember, if you don't try something out of the ordinary now and then, you'll never get anywhere.
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Old 5th August 2002, 06:55 PM
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Its 3am here, is there a shorter version of that? You know, like 20 words or less?
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Old 5th August 2002, 07:19 PM
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Box somehow generates electricity, in part from stray electro-magnetic fields. Not perpetual motion but close. Secret can't say how.

20 words above exactly
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Old 5th August 2002, 07:22 PM
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Well, let's see. They're raising lots of money and money = power so I'd say they're onto something. I'm thinking electro-scam fields or other similar fields. If they aren't willing to disclose and have a peer review (with international patent-pending) then the only thing that's hiding in the black taped box is a pile of bull doo-doo (IMHO).

cheers!
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  #7  
Old 5th August 2002, 07:48 PM
jema jema is offline
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these devices have been working at what they do best for years in the states now, and it is time the UK got in on this lucrative industry

jema
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Old 6th August 2002, 03:23 AM
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I have been following the development of several "Free Energy" or "Over-Unity" devices for several years. I found this one a year ago, a friend of mine and I are planning to build one: MEG.

Blacklight.

^^^ These are not crack pot scams, these are real inventions with scientific backup!
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Old 6th August 2002, 06:13 AM
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Hi dnar,

The MEG definitely seems interesting. At least with this device, it's all open source, peer reviewed with no black taped boxes (cardboard computing power, hurray!).

Also, it seems to partially answer some of the questions that none of my EE co-workers has ever been able to answer (which is one reason why I went into mathematics, but it's just as filled with holes as the rest{see Godel}): What's an electric-magnetic field, where is it getting it's energy to move charges from and how does a charge in a field know that it's in a field (QED states that electrons communicate through the exchange of photons (real and virtual), if conservation of energy/mass holds true (at least in 3-space, I'm not sure what "time" is, if it's a dimension, then if symmetry and again QED is to be believed, it must be more than "one-way") then this proves that one test charge cannot exist in isolation within an expanse of volume determined by the light sphere surrounding and growing from it. If it did then it would be spewing forth information about itself (i.e., the electro-magnetic field) all the while converting it's mass to energy that propogates this information (photons). Thus it would soon "evaporate". Of course, this begs the question, if there were only one charge in the universe, then there'd be no means of measuring an electro-magnetic field, so the problem goes away. Another question that needs to be asked, is where is the energy from an active vacuum coming from? Is there an extra-dimensional balance that must be maintained? Does some sort of potential gradient exist then (i.e., the dipole asymmetry)? What are the consequences of tapping into this gradient (from a physics point of view)?

Anyhoo, vacuum energy has been shown to exist and exerts a measurable force. Not sure about the math as it's beyond my knowledge. I'll show it to a PhD physicist friend of mine this weekend and see what his response is. Thanks for the link.

prok

Last edited by prokaryote; 6th August 2002 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 6th August 2002, 08:06 AM
jema jema is offline
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Call me a cynic, but won't anything involving a coil produce some measurable results? and therefore be likely to mislead people into thinking that there is real entery potential? When in fact all they are doing is picking up stray transformer effects from other devices?

jema
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Old 6th August 2002, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jema
Call me a cynic, but won't anything involving a coil produce some measurable results? and therefore be likely to mislead people into thinking that there is real entery potential? When in fact all they are doing is picking up stray transformer effects from other devices?

jema
Hi jema,

I think that the MEG and the "black box" are two different things. The "black box" (if it really works) seems to be a parasitic device. Turn off the TV and the device quits working. Much like the anti-stealth radar system that relies on many point sources of radio waves (cell phone transmitteres, radio transmitters, TV transmitters etc.).

Whereas the MEG (from my very limited understanding of the literature so far) will work regardless of other devices being around. I think, in what I'm sure is rather over simplified terms, that the MEG supposedly coverts space-time curvature (energy of a vacuum) into usable EM energy. Some of the earlier general relativity work equates all known energy forms as just an equivalent of space-time curvature. The surrounding space-time curvature (energy of a vacuum) will instantly (speed of light) fill or re-curve the local space-time curvature that was flattened by the extraction/conversion to EM energy. The apparent limitlessness of the amount of energy comes from the dimensionality aspect. Consider how many two dimensional slices (EM energy in this analogy) one could get from a 3-D loaf of bread (space-time curvature)... essentially infinite. Is this true or workable from the known theories? I'm not one to say as I'm pretty ignorant of these things. None the less, it makes for a good read.

prok
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Old 6th August 2002, 09:06 AM
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^^^^ What he said ^^^^
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Old 6th August 2002, 11:13 AM
jema jema is offline
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So this device done not conveniently contain any nice big coils that will pick up parisitical energy?

I an not opposed to the belief that there might one day be a free energy source, after all according to the rules of chemistry that served pretty well for a period hydrogen gives you a nice exothermic reaction, but no one would have concieved of Fusion.
There may be other ways to bend the rules of physics/chemistry as we know them and harness the various forces, gravity, weak and strong nuclear etc.
But when this occurs it will not rely on either "investment" schemes, or effects that cannot be simply demonstrated... the idea that conventional scientists would ignore such a device is the stuff of conspiracy theories. If there was a real device that worked, then lets see it set up on a bench with no hidden bits, lighting a 40watt light bulb!

jema
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Old 6th August 2002, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jema
So this device done not conveniently contain any nice big coils that will pick up parisitical energy?

I an not opposed to the belief that there might one day be a free energy source, after all according to the rules of chemistry that served pretty well for a period hydrogen gives you a nice exothermic reaction, but no one would have concieved of Fusion.
There may be other ways to bend the rules of physics/chemistry as we know them and harness the various forces, gravity, weak and strong nuclear etc.
But when this occurs it will not rely on either "investment" schemes, or effects that cannot be simply demonstrated... the idea that conventional scientists would ignore such a device is the stuff of conspiracy theories. If there was a real device that worked, then lets see it set up on a bench with no hidden bits, lighting a 40watt light bulb!

jema
Hi jema,

I think we're still talking about two different "devices". The device originally described by the opening post to this thread is in my mind a bunch of hooey. I say this because there's no discussion of what principles are being used, there's no subjection to peer review, there's no attempt to patent the device and there's a plea for unsubstantiated public funding.

As for the MEG device that dnar linked to, I believe that this may actually merit further investigation and attempts at experimental verification/replication of the results. The principles have been proposed in various peer review articles and a refutation of classical thermodynamic theory lies therein. Has to do with the arbitrary mathematical tricks used in current thermodynamic theory to get it to work in 3 space. A patent has been issued for the MEG device after initial refutation by the US patent authority for being a perpetual motion machine. A lengthy rebutal and review by independent physicists ensued and the patent was granted by the US in March 2002. I believe that the group persuing the MEG does not solicit public funding and will not accept such. Also, there have been at least 1 independent construct of MEG built and powering a series of light bulbs pulling a 22 Watt load with a controlling input of only 4-5 Watts. I too though am waiting for more independent verifications of just such a device. Again, I think that it is worthy of further investigation, but it would best to keep a critical eye on these devices (cold fusion and sono-luminescent fusion come to mind).

As for physical laws and free energy, you're surrounded by countless examples. Take the various fields (EM, gravitational, etc) and the hypothesized existance of virtual particles. These are somehow sustained ad-infinitum without any apparent source of energy. How can information about the source of these fields be conveyed without some kind of expenditure of energy to do so. And yet it happens without a resultant loss of mass/energy by point charges in the EM example and by the violation of conservation of mass by the creation of virtual particles from nothing (virtual particle effects have been measured as has the intrinsic energy inherent in a pure vacuum). The theory behind MEG called O(3) thermodynamics does not violate conservation laws when looked at from a 4-D perspective (3 space plus time). The above examples all violate conservation laws when viewed from a 3 space perspective.

I can think of many examples of where conventional scientific wisdom was no such thing. Take the problem of black body radiation at the turn of the century. Conventional wisdom stated that energy is continuous and a black body heated to a given temperature should radiate energy at all wavelengths proportional to it's temperature. But this is not so. The phenomena could not be explained by conventional Newtonian physics. This is where the idea of energy existing only in quanta was born, yet it was fought tooth and nail by convential scientists. Another example that lies close to my heart is the idea of Least Squares Regression fitting in statistics. The method was proposed by Gauss (who incidently knew of its short comings, but was compelled to pursue it because no other practical (at the time) method existed to solve the problem). Here, the squared distance between the regression line and the data is minimized. Squared distance is some bizarre construct of square space that isn't even a metric and requires quite a bit of contortionist mathematics to get data into the proper format to be useful. Least Absolute Deviation is a much better method, but requires intensive calculation not available at the time of Gauss. It is currently available, yet 150 years of inertia is very hard to fight. According to many practitioners of statistics, the world is all Gaussian, Linear and First Order and thus no further methods are needed. As more complex phenomena and larger data space regions are investigated, the shortcomings of conventional Gaussian based statistical methods are becoming ever more apparent, yet people will cling to the familiar (albeit erroneous) methodolgies.

I think that the definition of simply demonstrated is highly relative. It's no easy feat to demonstrate man-made fusion in controlled or uncontrolled fashion.

I think that I've shown that convention is no unbiased judge (even in science) of what is and what isn't and people (scientists) will cling to what is known and confortable if given the chance. However, the selling point of the scientific method is the ability to investigate claims and attempt to disprove the proported hypothesis. The claim that if such a thing (MEG) exists then it would have been found by now has no basis in historical context. Many natural phenomena are just now being explained that were beyond scientists capabilites several years ago. Natural law/models and it's discovery is no static thing, it is not written in stone and is constantly changing to suit new data and observations.

I think that your reference to conspiracy theory's contains an implicit claim that if it's a conspiracy theory, then it is necessarily false. I can think of two examples of where this is not true. Take the Manhattan project of WWII era and the current decryption technology for code breaking that is sat on by the NSA (U.S.). During both of these projects, attempts were made to sit on the technology and keep it under wraps. Thus, a conspiracy theory isn't necessarily false, though may be unlikely. Do I think that there's an organized conspiracy to keep this MEG under wraps? No. Do I think that most scientists, engineers and physicist understand the derivations of current thermodynamical theory? Absolutely not. I cite the above question about the orgin and sustainment of EM fields. I've asked this very question countless times to many EE associates and not once have I ever received any kind of coherent answer. Most of the time I get a puzzled look as to why I'd even ask such a question... just memorize the equations and get on with it.

Cheers!

prok
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  #15  
Old 6th August 2002, 07:28 PM
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Ee-gad thats complicated.
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