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  #1  
Old 30th June 2016, 03:28 PM
Coleslaw Coleslaw is offline
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GoofyxGrid@Home

GoofyxGrid@Home

http://goofyxgridathome.net/

Quote:
Monkeys application will check some aspects for infinite monkey theorem:

  • monkeys_v1 - draws word for examine if thats word existing in Polish or English dictiora for now (I wonder about using more dictionaries)
  • monkeys_v2 - draws word until it not exactly like in WU
  • monkeys_v3 - draws whole text and check if it not a fragment for example some Sheakspir works
This project is currently Non-CPU intensive (which we have had NCI projects in the past) and the v3 application has not been released yet which may change that. This thread is being put up for people to post their concerns and observations about the potential addition of this project.
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  #2  
Old 2nd July 2016, 08:50 AM
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Ninja Jotohei
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A bit too goofy perhaps?
I mean looking around for words of Sheakspir.
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  #3  
Old 4th July 2016, 08:20 PM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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Probably yes.. But it fits the rules...
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  #4  
Old 17th July 2016, 08:55 PM
NMA NMA is offline
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I don't see how this his qualified as a project for any kind of competition? A single threaded non cpu intensive app? I'm getting old but this feels like a race for 90 year olds. What am I missing?
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  #5  
Old 17th July 2016, 11:12 PM
Coleslaw Coleslaw is offline
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DC-Vault history showed Majestic-12 and DIMES both as NCI apps that were in the same general scenario. Many found that running VM's (thus the more your system can push the more you could produce) were the way to go. But since you don't think it meets the requirements of DC-Vault, please point out the requirement it doesn't meet. I understand the viewpoint on competitiveness but that is because of a single way of viewing competition. Those with large amounts of RAM, HDD space, internet bandwidth, etc... will find that they can all compete more than someone with a single core system. It is just matter of perspective. So, discuss your thoughts and get more people to discuss as community concern does matter to Vault admins/owners.
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  #6  
Old 20th July 2016, 06:43 AM
DigiK-oz DigiK-oz is offline
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I tend to agree with NMA here. Sure, you can find a Linux distro needing very little memory, build a VM with it and cramp as much of those as you can on your system(s). But what's the point here? Showing off your VM/linux skills?

The project has limited the number of WU's on any system (no matter how many cpu's/cores) to 2, one of each of their applications. Being non-cpu, I wonder why? Users/teams wishing to make a real impact in the project (and thus vault) rankings are therefore forced to jump through all sorts of hoops.

Sure, it meets the vault requirements. But for me, it is very hard to see this as a project that should be in the vault.

Cheers,
DigiK-oz
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  #7  
Old 20th July 2016, 09:10 AM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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It's funny, you know.... It's not until after we add it everyone start providing feedback..
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  #8  
Old 20th July 2016, 07:30 PM
DigiK-oz DigiK-oz is offline
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Maybe not everyone checks this forum on a regular basis? I know there's nothing you can do about that , but the addition of a project then triggers people, including myself, to start participating and notice any quirks a project may have.

The lack of possibility to really make a big push without resorting to tricks like many VM's (which the top teams on this project obviously do) is my main concern. Working on that, though, with automated VM deployments etc, but that is not what competing in the vault should be in my opinion.
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  #9  
Old 21st July 2016, 02:44 PM
Coleslaw Coleslaw is offline
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DigiK-oz, I believe the trouble is with how the BOINC client handles non-CPU intensive applications. I know the dev at GoofyxGrid is/has looked into how to get more running. I'm not sure of the intricate workings of doing so. I know FreeHAL allowed up to 25 (of the same application) at a time and even played with CPU intensive and non-CPU intensive apps. But what they have found is that having more than one NCI application at a single project has problems that CPU intensive applications do not have. Again, it is coming down to how BOINC client is designed. These tidbits have been accumulated from information provided in their forums. I know when they first launched that they were very anti-virtual machines and feared being looked at as another FreeHAL. However, all of those threads and posts have disappeared. I had multiple posts discussing it with them. Now, they seem interested in getting as much resources as they can. However, I have not seen them come right out and explain why they don't send out several of the same version of application since. It may be a good time for someone to bring that back up.

As far as "jumping through hoops", it is a very large grey area. People jump through many hoops to get the competitive leg up on others. Especially in competitive challenges. Look how many use cc_config flags to manipulate BOINC into thinking there are more CPU cores than really exists. This allows for more work units to be downloaded at various projects in different ways. This makes it easier for them to get work when others struggle. It also circumvents restrictions server side that might dictate one work unit per core/thread being downloaded. Look at the fact that people are beginning to use more than one BOINC client on their rigs. Those are also hoop jumps. What about app_configs and app_info files to run work on machines not intended to be ran on or run multiple work units on a single GPU. That is all jumping through hoops to get a leg up. Those whom want to be on top will put in the effort. Those that don't have the competitive edge will do the minimums and just set & forget.

I think this goes back to the old mentality of everything being tied to a processor core/thread and how fast it can crank out a single work unit rather than the entire system. A work unit that requires a ton of internet bandwidth means a person may not be able to run as many work units across their home network regardless of CPU cores/threads. Hard drive storage requirements could do the same. A project that requires virtualbox may want 3+GB of disk space per work unit. If you had a meager 128GB SSD in your computer, a 4P 48 core rig would not be able to do that. So, does that make that project less worthy of being in the DC-Vault? In my eyes the answer is no. You either find ways around your problem or you settle for what you have.
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  #10  
Old 21st July 2016, 03:32 PM
Coleslaw Coleslaw is offline
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I think it is also a good time for people to re-read the front page of DC-Vault before making claims to what DC-Vault intends.

Quote:
The DC Vault is the place to compare your team's performance against others, the place to look out for when you plan your next taunting fest, the place you can refer others to and brag about how devilishly high ranked your team is ... or not.

Compare your team's performance and ranking in many different categories or look at the overall picture, highlight your team of choice, compare teams at a glance, anything is possible with the links above!
That is pretty clear to me that it isn't limited to a single ideal. If people really dislike NCI projects being added, please make your case and be very thorough as you may have to justify why others are also not excluded. If you just don't like the project for some reason that is fair. But please explain your reasoning and show that you have actually done the research. There are many that don't understand the "science" they contribute to or don't contribute to.
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  #11  
Old 21st July 2016, 09:01 PM
DigiK-oz DigiK-oz is offline
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Well, Coleslaw, you know....I think you bring up some valid points here

It's not that I dislike either the goofy project or any other project (NCI or not). I just think that teams should be able to compete in all vault projects just by "throwing hardware at it". I tested some "hoops" today at goofy, and managed to score as many points on one rig as a hundred "regular" systems. I could push that as far as 500 times as many points as a "normal" system/user could do without tricks.

Whether that is due to how BOINC handles NCI applications, or due to the project involved, or due to it being full moon or not, does not matter to me. To get some serious points on the board here, one has to find ways around the limitations that cause a project to be unable to generate a lot of points.

And yes, I investigated, googled, and found a way around this. Which I will share, of course, within my team. Which will get us climbing the ladder on this project pretty fast. But....To me, it doesn't feel right. Not to the people who have been running this project for ages, obtaining a high rank at it without any tricks. Then, some teams join the project that do manage to find some tricks, overtaking them within a week where they have been running for years.

However, if finding those tricks is part of the vault challenge, I (or we, as a team) will happily accept that challenge and jump through any and all hoops that are required to keep us at the top of the vault But still, I wish it would be different.

Bottom line : I think a project that limits the amount of points that can be obtained within a set amount of time in any way, shape or form should not be in the vault. But I will find ways around any such limitations should the project be added anyway.

Cheers,
DIgiK-oz
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  #12  
Old 22nd July 2016, 08:28 PM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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Wait on a minute. This project limits points to users.. Well that doesn't sound like an open project.

Does this project issue credit for work done?
How does it limit the amount of points?
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  #13  
Old 22nd July 2016, 09:21 PM
Coleslaw Coleslaw is offline
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Rusty, I think you misunderstood him. It is points per work unit. So the more you crank out the more you earn. There is no hard limit per user. And we have had projects that limited the number of work units per user in the past.

GPUGrid limits you to 8 GPU's in a box. Yes one of my team members hit that limit and found out the hard way.
Leiden limits you to 128 work units per person per day (which is one of the big reasons it was pulled).


The big attraction for an NCI project is that people don't have to care much about the science. I wouldn't run the project for long if it weren't NCI. What few VM's I have actually are used for other uses and BOINC is just a secondary benefit with them. It doesn't interrupt most other things so is just a bit of extra to peoples other goals. However, it is only those caring about competition that try to maximize it.

Last edited by Coleslaw; 22nd July 2016 at 09:44 PM.
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  #14  
Old 2nd August 2016, 06:07 PM
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Ninja Jotohei
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Because of possibilities with this project, I suspect that soon the website of this project will not respond any more.
Too many clients trying to connect, uploading, requesting new tasks, etc.

Last edited by iconized; 2nd August 2016 at 06:09 PM.
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  #15  
Old 3rd August 2016, 02:17 AM
NMA NMA is offline
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Wow, lots of great points while I was away.

With the lack of compute power used by the project I have to wonder why it even exists as a distributed client. A single system could handle the entire work load of this project. My first conclusion is the client has other objectives to sit idle in the background.
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