Team Ninja Bulletin Board  

Go Back   Team Ninja Bulletin Board > DC Vault > New Projects

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29th January 2016, 10:25 AM
Michael H.W. We's Avatar
Michael H.W. We Michael H.W. We is offline
Neophyte
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 15
ATLAS@home

Like vLHC@home, ATLAS@home fulfills all requirements for DC Vault and should be added to the physical science section.

Michael.
__________________
Cooperation rather than competition is nature's most powerful principle. Or why do you think are eukaryotes the crown of evolution on earth?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 30th January 2016, 01:08 AM
Coleslaw Coleslaw is offline
[H]ard|OCP
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: IL
Posts: 541
Last post in this thread http://www.team-ninja.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=57256 refers to a response from their admin. They even agree that the project is not stable enough for a challenge consideration. I have not heard any change in this status since November but can say that this project still does have a lot of issues to work out. Out of the 4 CERN VM projects, this is probably ranked 3rd in my opinion on the stability list.
__________________
[link=http://join.worldcommunitygrid.org?recruiterId=338542&tea mId=BP5XNJBR9N1][/link]
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 31st January 2016, 10:11 AM
Michael H.W. We's Avatar
Michael H.W. We Michael H.W. We is offline
Neophyte
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 15
I have contributed to this project over the entire last year with multiple machines, so I think I can say that I know precisely what issues this project has - especially since I visited CERN last year and talked to the responsible people (and also those from vLHC@home).
The project suffers from three re-occurring errors which I have documented in their forum. To my experience one of these (the kernel panic) has been resolved. Overall, the percentage of failing work units is rather low. I do not see grounds for keeping this project away from DC Vault (which, at least to my opinion, anyway suffers from far too few projects listed).
The remaining two errors are occurring at a much lower rate since the introduction of their new version, so I think our continuous error reports in their forum has led to some improvements (and these reports/feedback will be kept up).
Overall, I now have only one machine left which shows occasional errors: These can be identified by simply checking the run times of the WUs in progress.

Michael.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 31st January 2016, 03:34 PM
Coleslaw Coleslaw is offline
[H]ard|OCP
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: IL
Posts: 541
I've pulled several machines from the project due to continued issues. I have ran a wide variety of boxes. I will continue to run some. However, what you are missing is that the project itself didn't feel it was quite ready. After all, the rules for inclusion are just a must meet credential list. After that, it comes down to the community as well as the project preference. We have actually held off adding projects because they told us to. Since this is a challenge site, the project must be challenge ready. If the project has major issues donors get discouraged. We also tend to like stress testing on a large scale to prove they can handle it. this project does not have a huge user base, so it would probably be best if a challenge hosted somewhere like BOINCStats could be held to show their servers can not only supply enough work, but handle the demand. To my knowledge this has not happened yet. My recommendation is to get the admins to approve first.

Please reference this thread: http://atlasathome.cern.ch/forum_thread.php?id=374#3100

Last edited by Coleslaw; 31st January 2016 at 03:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 3rd February 2016, 12:46 PM
Michael H.W. We's Avatar
Michael H.W. We Michael H.W. We is offline
Neophyte
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 15
Just a hint: ATLAS@home has INITIATED its own challenge just during the last quarter of 2015! I know it, because I was the translator of their challenge announcement to German.
But why am I arguing here, it is your site. I just find it boring to find less and less projects represented over here...

Michael.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 3rd February 2016, 01:47 PM
iconized iconized is offline
Ninja Jotohei
Dutch Power Cows
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 65
I would like to know what this project does. A punished Titan as a name, I am curious...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 3rd February 2016, 11:48 PM
Coleslaw Coleslaw is offline
[H]ard|OCP
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: IL
Posts: 541
Michael, it is not my site. I have no ownership of it and also no final say. I'm stating my observations of this small project that has openly stated that they were not yet ready. If you can convince them to change their minds, by all means go ahead. We currently have 26 projects in our list because those tend to be the most stable and reliable projects that also tend to have consistent and reliable volumes of work available. We WILL NOT add a project just because someone likes it. It needs to be proven stable to some degree. Most teams do not want to fuss and muss with a project that requires a ton of babysitting and tweaking to run reliably. We also get complaints when projects don't fulfill expectations for work requests. Recently we have seen complaints about adding too many too quick without a proper amount of testing. Only one was recently added without first hosting a challenge beforehand to see if it would handle the load and that project was soon pulled because it could not. So, like I said above. Get the project to sign off on it. Then we will move forward. The same goes for vLHC as they also have said they weren't ready. I'm still waiting to hear an update from them.

Also, could you reference a link for the Atlas challenge as I don't recall it. I know vLHC had one outside of BOINC.

Last edited by Coleslaw; 4th February 2016 at 12:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 5th February 2016, 10:00 AM
Rusty Rusty is offline
Owner
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 11,370
Coleslaw is right.. If the project says no.. They say No... Simple.

Coleslaw has been a bloody good asset to the Vault, without him, it probably would have fallen over in a heap.

If you can convince the project to change their position on being added to the Vault, do it.. Love seeing projects added.
__________________
RUSTY


Team Ninja Forever : Once a Ninja, always a Ninja - Team Ninja

"I'm a SAS NINJA"

Drafted to the SAS
Dump of the day in Folding@Home   Dump of the week in Folding@Home   Dump of the month in Folding@Home   Stomp of the month in Folding@Home  
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 20th February 2016, 02:46 AM
dacodave dacodave is offline
Grasshopper
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1
Atlas@home

I agree with Michael.

I found DC vault in atlas@home, but it's not here...

Last edited by dacodave; 20th February 2016 at 02:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 21st February 2016, 06:08 AM
Coleslaw Coleslaw is offline
[H]ard|OCP
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: IL
Posts: 541
dacodave, my advice will be the same to you as well. Start with getting the project to sign off on it. Otherwise it is a no go from the admin perspective. Once we have their OK, we will re-visit the idea. I have ran a lot of work from them and still do. I've also dealt with a lot of headaches from them too. I am leery on the number of users interested in running the project as a challenge. My basis is that a meager 5k RAC puts you in the top 1% of users. I have also still to see any links to the alleged challenge above as well. I would like to see the results of that challenge.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 23rd February 2016, 06:28 PM
fractal fractal is offline
ARS Technica
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: earth
Posts: 79
It may be worth asking them again, though based on their response rate to bug reports I would not hold my breath for a reply.

I started testing Atlas@home after reading this thread. I was a bit put off all the ignored and blown off support requests. The most asked question was blown off and ignored. People really want to know "how much memory does this project require" and the official answer of "disable CPU cores until it works" is a bit weird.

Atlas@home can be a bit tricky to configure. You need a version of virtualBox that it likes on a machine with 2.5 GiB of RAM per core with VT-X (or the AMD equivalent) enabled. You also need a decent network connection. People with data caps who use their service will probably want to avoid this project. I have tried to install Atlas@home on three machines. The first one came up the first try. Nothing I do makes the second one work. The third one exhibited the same behavior as the second for a day of fiddling then miraculously started working on its own with no apparent action on my part. Just a bit tricky, but what the heck.

Let me walk you through the life of an Atlas work unit.

The first work unit you run requires you to download the VM image. This only happens once but it is a 1.5 GiB download.

Each work unit requires you to download a 55M data set. A VM is launched with that data set and proceeds to start talking to CERN. This goes on for 3-10 minutes depending on how fast your network is and how busy CERN is. The work unit fails if CERN times out on any of the requests. Eventually it gets enough data to proceed and starts to crunch.

The work units not only want a lot of memory, they use it. The work is memory intensive. Faster memory helps a LOT. Running multiple units on machines quickly become memory limited.

I think I have noticed a call home half way through the 3-5 hour work units. I have seen failed work units at that time.

Finally, after the unit finish it calls up CERN again and posts its results to the data base. Again, this will cause the work unit to fail if it can't chat. Normal BOINC backoffs do not apply.

Once this finishes, the BOINC work unit finishes, posts a moderate size result, and requests a new one. This happens sequentially if you have all of your cores running Atlas. It can prefetch a new work unit before the old one completes if you are running other projects on some cores but will wait until your unit finishes and posts before starting the 55 MiB download if all of your cores are running Atlas@home.

They are currently running a challenge to see how many people they can get to run Atlas@home. The project had a hickup shortly after starting the challenge when the CERN proxy got busy for "unknown reasons" and 80% of all work failed. Nobody knows why but it went away so nobody cares.

I don't know why I am telling you all of this. None of it really matters. All that matters is getting permission from the project admins, if you can get their attention better than the regular volunteers to get an answer. Because, other than that, the project meets the requirements for vault admission even though it is clearly not ready for prime time.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 23rd February 2016, 08:53 PM
Coleslaw Coleslaw is offline
[H]ard|OCP
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: IL
Posts: 541
fractal, that is actually good information to post to help educate anyone else that has not been watching the project. Thank you for posting it. I myself will not be contacting them again until after their challenge as I'm sure they are interested in the over all results. If someone could post links to their challenge and any actual details presented of it, this could be helpful.

Edit: And I'm assuming this is the "challenge" that is being referenced http://atlasathome.cern.ch/forum_thread.php?id=449#3736

Last edited by Coleslaw; 23rd February 2016 at 08:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 27th February 2016, 10:14 PM
fractal fractal is offline
ARS Technica
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: earth
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by fractal View Post
I have tried to install Atlas@home on three machines. The first one came up the first try. Nothing I do makes the second one work. The third one exhibited the same behavior as the second for a day of fiddling then miraculously started working on its own with no apparent action on my part. Just a bit tricky, but what the heck.
An update on machine #2. I added that machine cosmology@home and it refused to get vbox work there as well. Asking on the cosmology@Home forums got me pointed at their FAQ with some help.

There is a known issue in boinc ( https://github.com/BOINC/boinc/issues/1460 ) which can set a flag in client_state.xml that will cause the symptoms I saw. Checking my machine confirmed the presence of

Code:
p_vm_extensions_disabled
set to 1 in client_state.xml. This forum won't let me show the offending XML setting. Deleting that setting caused the machine to start processing cosmology@home work. I still need to confirm that it helps atlas@Home as well. In all fairness someone did report something kinda remotely similar on the Atlas forums but gave a catchall of "delete boinc and all its folders and reinstall if you have issues." I ignored that as I usually ignore the "nuke from orbit" suggestions. But, knowing how to fix it without nuking even though I had to find it from another project does reduce the technical issues with the project. Too bad I did not find that info on the atlas@home site.

I have been running atlas@home for 2 weeks now and have completed 331 work units and have had 12 fail validation. I will post an update after I upgrade a few more machines to handle bigger projects and vbox.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 28th March 2016, 03:29 AM
Coleslaw Coleslaw is offline
[H]ard|OCP
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: IL
Posts: 541
Looks like the challenge still has not happened due to being postponed. Today they are out of work units. What work I did have seemed to run a bit better, though still not perfect. Will try and keep an eye on it.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 18th April 2016, 09:31 PM
Coleslaw Coleslaw is offline
[H]ard|OCP
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: IL
Posts: 541
ATLAS is still having growing pains. Now it is run time estimation and credits. http://atlasathome.cern.ch/forum_thread.php?id=482#3998 They are also considering looking into new credit systems.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.