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View Poll Results: Should Commercial be accepted and added to the DC-Vault?
YES and why 8 28.57%
NO and Why 20 71.43%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 6th July 2009, 03:17 AM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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Acceptance of Commercial(?)

There has been some heated and not heated debating about weather Commercial projects should be allowed/added into the DC-Vault.

Now I know everyone has probably talked this one to death, but I think this topic deserves it's own thread, dont you.

My personal views are that if someone makes money off the work we do, then it's not on.. Now I am all for projects getting grants or donations to keep the project alive and active but when a project make cold hard cash off the electricity we pay for, then once again I disagree. However, that is my thoughts and if this is the case, I will not crunch that project, with the exception of a project that I believe in or I should say research I believe in.

BUT

This thread is NOT aimed at any project in particular, it is aimed at Commercial projects in general.

We(admin) are not currently looking at changing anything at this stage.

So invite your friends, invite your fello team mates and join a conversation.
Say what you think!

Rules:
No flaming or insults. Flaming.insulting will result in a warning's and even bans.(If you feel you have been insulted, re-read what the person has written and try it from a different angle. Then Contact me)
Don't talk about a project. Just in general. If you use something from a project site, make sure you post the link to the info please.
No flaming a project
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  #2  
Old 6th July 2009, 05:15 AM
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Sport Sport is offline
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I'll hold my vote for now, though I'm 100% sure how I feel on this issue!

Rusty,

I've got your back on this one brother!


I'll reiterate what Rusty said ...
THIS HAS TO REMAIN CIVILIZED!!!

My perspective and only mine.....
1. This is the DC-Vault...not Boinc-Vault, which means that non-Boinc projects {{ Dimes, Folding, EON, Muon, and others}} carry the same weight as WCG, Docking, NQueens and the rest

2. CPU projects and GPU projects just by their very nature are going to have some disparities. GPU is in it's infancy, but looks to able to mature and there will be issues arise

3. this thread has NOTHING to do with #1 or #2! This thread is about commercial vs noncommercial predjudices.

That said I'll get to my point

My friends, especially in these difficult times the Dollar, the Yen, the Peso, the Rupal, the Dinar....whatever; is going to come into play in every aspect of our lives. Sorry but economics is truly what makes the world 'round.

Every man, woman, child, organisation, entity or project has a cash flow; positive, negative, or balanced; there is money moving in and out.

Someone is paying for the server space and bandwidth I'm using right now at http://DC-Vault.com. Some one is paying for the server space and bandwidth I'm using to connect to NQueens. The same goes for all the projects I am or ever have or ever will crunch at!
Be it grants, donations, tax deferments, or good old fashion free enterprise, there is a cashflow.

The DC-Vault rules for inclusion......

Quote:
Project eligibility is governed by the following guidelines:

The project must:
  • be active
  • accept new members and teams immediately upon registration
  • have parsable team stats
  • have team stats that are updated regularly
  • provide a client program which runs on a local PC
The project must not:
  • be a keylogger or mouseclick counter
  • have a maximum number of teams or members or exclude any country
this may be perceived as written in stone or may be perceived as open for adjustment.

When was the last time these rules for inclusion were altered? And how long ago were they drawn up?

My point is that every project has a cashflow; I don't care where it comes from; if I see a reason to attach my machines to it, I will; whether it is DC-V approved or not. If I don't like a project, that's my option as well

As someone stated in another thread ..."This rhetoric and $1.06 will buy me a small cup of coffee"
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Last edited by Sport; 6th July 2009 at 05:42 AM.
  #3  
Old 6th July 2009, 11:54 AM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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People are voting and not replying/posting.

So far 2 people have posted and 4 votes..
  #4  
Old 6th July 2009, 12:45 PM
Zachariassen Zachariassen is offline
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No surprises here - I'll vote NO !
I don't accept anybody to make a profit for nothing - but... I do accept commercial project if they gonna share 'the money' with the guys who are doing the 'hard work' (us - the crunchers). As I said in another thread - If they pay me, I'll work for them
So - the world isn't black or white - as a general rule I'll say NO - but (there is always a 'but') - If the commercial projects - one way or another - are sharing their profit (but not their losses ;D)- I'll say YES.
  #5  
Old 6th July 2009, 12:58 PM
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cswchan cswchan is offline
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Sorry... one of the YES votes was mine... Include the project... let the individual decide whether he/she wants to run it!
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  #6  
Old 6th July 2009, 01:00 PM
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Razor_FX_II Razor_FX_II is offline
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I vote NO to the acceptance of Commercial projects in the DC-Vault.

The DC-Vault is used by many teams as a way to compete by score with each other with no gain for their teams. If a project is put in the DC-Vault it then becomes part of the competition.

This is the very reason I think Commercial projects want to be included in the DC-Vault to reap the gains of the team competitiveness.
This makes me feel like I am being used for someone else's gain when all I intended doing was to have some competitive fun and do some good along the way.

Commercial projects are for monetary gain and thus should fund their own computational needs.
The non commercial projects need our help and without it would not be able to survive.
Let us focus our help on the projects that need our help not the ones who want to save money by using our good will and competitiveness for their gains.
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  #7  
Old 6th July 2009, 01:17 PM
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Yankton Yankton is offline
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I voted no. If the company is just in this for the cash and is closed source on the results, then let them spend some money on some mainframes to crunch their data for them. I feel that anything that I contribute to should end up in the public domain.
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  #8  
Old 6th July 2009, 06:37 PM
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KAMCOBILL KAMCOBILL is offline
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I voted yes. One reason and the most inportant is if we make money making projects not suitable for the vault, then 90% or more of the project will have to be removed. Another is it's a better project than 50% in the Vault now.
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  #9  
Old 6th July 2009, 07:26 PM
Jathanis Jathanis is offline
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankton View Post
I voted no. If the company is just in this for the cash and is closed source on the results, then let them spend some money on some mainframes to crunch their data for them. I feel that anything that I
contribute to should end up in the public domain.
I vote no, for pretty much this reason right here. I agree with what Razor_FX_II said, and personally fold for causes I like as much as I can. By adding a commercial project to the Vault, I then end up with the choice of participating in a project I don't agree with the methods of, leaving it up to other team members to carry the load in that project without me, or watch my team fall in the rankings... For example, I don't believe that SETI is likely to accomplish as much as F@H or WCG, so I don't do SETI - and I think a lot less of any commercial group "using" the DC community! And while I mostly do this for the science, etc, it's sure a lot more FUN to have actual rankings to work for!
  #10  
Old 6th July 2009, 07:51 PM
sirmonkey sirmonkey is offline
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voted no.. id have to agree that commercial businesses do not belong in the vault.. this is about competition and having fun.. none of these groups make a profit off anything... WCG, F@H, climate prediction just to name a few off the top of my head.. if the company wants to me pay me.. then thats a different story.. but im sure as hell not doing work for them for free while they get rich off it..
  #11  
Old 6th July 2009, 08:17 PM
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Xaverius Xaverius is offline
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I voted no for the reasons given by the other no-voters.
The 90% being commercial KAMCOBILL is talking about, is that a solid number or just a guess?
  #12  
Old 6th July 2009, 09:38 PM
Bold_Seeker Bold_Seeker is offline
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Hello all, I specially registered to be able to vote NO.
Why? Because I am against the idea that a company makes profit
on behalf of the DC community. The introduction of a commercial
project in the DC-Vault would ruin fair competition and possibly pressure
people into joining that commercial project solely for keeping the team in
a high rank, thus creating a moral dilemma.

I'm in for the competition and for the science that's being done. Not for
"sponsoring" people that will make hard cash over my back.

Sure, I can decide not to join that project, but if the team that we (DPC) are trying to pass joins that project then we might not have a chance to
ever pass that team, because there could be a gap of 10.00 points wich can hardly be compensated.
  #13  
Old 6th July 2009, 10:14 PM
xorsist xorsist is offline
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Hi all, I also registered to vote NO on this project.
I object to projects in the vault that are there to make money off the back of us all as the DC community.
I'm in for the competition and I like to "try" to understand the science in the projects I work on.
  #14  
Old 7th July 2009, 12:26 AM
alan2308 alan2308 is offline
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We're doing all the work and footing pretty much all the bill, so what's in it for us? When they profit from the data, its a business and that's how we should be looking at it. I don't go in to work every morning because I really like the product that the company is producing.
  #15  
Old 7th July 2009, 01:16 AM
Rusty Rusty is offline
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I have read the replies and once again I am excited that finally we have people join the convo'.. Awesome work peeps.

So it seems that not many people care to have pure commercial projects introduced to the Vault, given the fact we work for "free" processing units for someone else to make money.

I did see a few people thinking that half the projects would fall under the "commercial" banner.

As I see it a commercial project would be for profit.
Projects that gain financial benefits from donations, grants etc, etc are not commercial.

Are these 2 types under the same banner?

Has the project been registered for business purposes?
Is the project connected with or engaged in or sponsored by or used in commerce or commercial enterprises?

Would you still crunch F@H, SETi, D2oL, TSC if they sold the work to someone and made money from your work?

Should we define "What Commercial IS first?
What is a Commercial project. Do we classify a project commercial if they receive regular donations to keep it running?
Do we classify a project a commercial project if they run a TV/paper/net ad? or have an interview and it is published?
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