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  #46  
Old 29th October 2011, 12:25 AM
alexc alexc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyond (Ars) View Post
the project in question (AQUA) pledged to release its data freely.
It closed down in August 2011.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AQUA@home

I don't know how many people benefited from this free data, but given that on one hand 95% of our customers use data for free and that we are on top 2000 world sites, I'd say we did better than Aqua.

Source: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/majesticseo.com

---

When we started in late 2004 there was company called Grub.org who started before us and they were owned by pretty big company, they did close down in 2005 but if they were still running here I'd never call for them to be removed from DC Vault or anywhere else. That's because I don't want to seek advantage by removing people from competition, hell we got nuked from Wikipedia at some point and I refused to nominate them for removal too. That was really annoying time because we got removed from Wikipedia totally unfairly, all thanks to Wiki zealots who just wanted us to get deleted no matter what logical argument was given - that was in 2006 I think, doesn't matter really because we are standing very strongly on our feet now - you do remind me of them though.

Last edited by alexc; 29th October 2011 at 12:28 AM.
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  #47  
Old 29th October 2011, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by alexc View Post
hell we got nuked from Wikipedia at some point and I refused to nominate them for removal too. That was really annoying time because we got removed from Wikipedia totally unfairly, all thanks to Wiki zealots who just wanted us to get deleted no matter what logical argument was given - that was in 2006 I think, doesn't matter really because we are standing very strongly on our feet now - you do remind me of them though.
Why in the world were you removed from Wikipedia? I'm glad you're doing well now though and thanks for the omnipresent insult...
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  #48  
Old 29th October 2011, 12:54 AM
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Wow I think there's been more messages posted by the 4 of us today than the total for the last 6 months. At least some of the cobwebs are getting dusted off the forum
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  #49  
Old 29th October 2011, 12:56 AM
alexc alexc is offline
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Originally Posted by Beyond (Ars) View Post
Why in the world were you removed from Wikipedia? I'm glad you're doing well now though and thanks for the omnipresent insult...
Apparently we were not notable enough, all that despite an article in UK national paper!

More (long thread warning) here: http://www.majestic12.co.uk/forum/vi...pedia+deletion (note: this thread is very old - 2006!)

The most annoying part was that they asked me to nominate for deletion one of our competitors at the time which I refused to do because I thought they rightfully belong to Wikipedia... I believe they are still in, which is fine by me - the main point here is that people should have freedom of choice that is not restricted by some zealots who think something should be removed or deleted.

Last edited by alexc; 29th October 2011 at 01:00 AM.
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  #50  
Old 29th October 2011, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Beyond (Ars) View Post
Wow I think there's been more messages posted by the 4 of us today than the total for the last 6 months. At least some of the cobwebs are getting dusted off the forum
If I did not run out of beer I'd keep posting for a few more hours

Anyway it's 2am in the UK and I am planning to work this weekend in office on some new ranking stuff for the project search engine, just like other weekends ... so good night!
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  #51  
Old 29th October 2011, 12:59 AM
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Laughing Out Loud - "Beyond (Ars) folds like a cheap suit !"
Can't answer any questions just stands on an unsupported accusation !
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  #52  
Old 29th October 2011, 06:07 AM
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Come on guys... Don't get me wrong I have really enjoyed the conversation, but I think that is enough of the rubbish.
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  #53  
Old 29th October 2011, 05:17 PM
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I'm posting this for Movieman from Xtremesystems.
He tried to make an account here and for some reason both his gmail and isp email addresses come up as "banned"

Hello,
I'm Movieman from Xtremesystems.
I'm pushing 60 mand have been involved in DC work since 2003
I was linked to this thread, read thru it and would like to add my thoughts to this.
I first heard about Alex and MJ12 back in May 2006.
One of the guys at XS said this:
"There's this guy in England thats trying to make a better Google than Google.
He seems like a nice guy. Should we help him?"
Now the bold part is what appealed to me at first.
We were going thru a nasty time with the guy who ran Rosetta and I was sick of the arguments.
I joined MJ12, got to know Alex a bit and yes, he was a nice guy and the goal seemed like one I could work with as it didn't take much in the terms of cpu power but just bandwidth.
Because of the download limitations with companies like Comcast most of the XS guys had to drop off over time or lose their ISP.
I was one of the exceptions as my ISP didn't care how much I used as long as I paid the bill.
Over the years as faster lines became available I finally wound up with a 30/15mbit line.
Now to the meat of this.
I see comments that MJ12 shouldn't be allowed to stay in the vault and as long as the reasons are because people think that a commercial app shouldn't be here I have no issue with that BUT thats not what I'm seeing.
I'm seeing that there's an agenda behind some of the people here and since I'm not a active person here I had to do a little digging to see what was really going on.
It seems that if MJ12 is dropped from the vault then Ars Technica goes to first place in the total standings and that is what appears to be the motive behind some of the people complaining about MJ12.
IF that is so then those involved should be ashamed of themselves.
Toss a app just for a ranking increase in what is in reality a meaningless statitical site whose sole purpose was designed for people like us to have a little fun with?
C'mon people, where is your sense of reality and honor?
Then I see the comments about Alex not having free everything for the members. Who does? Maybe some but most don't.
Do you think that WCG or Folding at home will send you all their findings?
I think not.
Now lets address this "selling of nodes" issue that was brought up.
One of the guys on MJ12 is named refic.
He lives in Finland where there are cheap( by US standards) 100mbit unlimited servers available for short money.
He offerred nodes to the guys at $20.00/month each
Each node will do app 5 million a day.
Now since I can do app 9 million/day on my 30mbit line and was watching some of the "big" players in Europe do 50-60 million a day on their cheap 100mbit lines I looked into this and bought 10 nodes for 2 months( end of 2011)
Where did I get the $400.00 to pay for that?
I used most of the $436.00 dividend I got from Alex for the 2010 year.
Yes, my way of investing it back into the project and also to have some fun with the guys..
What I think gets lost in the drive to "get more, do more" is to just plain have some fun with this and with all DC apps.
Over at XS we tease the living crap out of one another but all know it's done with a smile and that is the key..smile and laugh.
Last I'd like to say that I was on MJ12 for over 3 years before the subject of money ever came up.
We did and do the project because we want to help Alex achieve his dream.
Just as you might go and help a friend move or build a garage we are helping a friend achieve his dream.
If he makes money from it so what? I hope he makes a billion.
I also want to speak to characher on his part and some of this isn't general knowledge but it needs to be said.
Alex was the one who OFFERRED to set up a LLC with the guys owning 20% of MJ12. No one asked, he did it because he wanted to say thanks to those that made the project doable.
Alex also was the one who asked the guys about which stats sites he should make a contribution to and both Free DEC and DC Vault were mentioned.
My understanding is that he sent 500GBP($800.00USD) to each.
Again, not something he had to do but something he chose to do to say "Thanks for what you do."
The bottom line is think about what your doing and your motives for doing it and also think about the guy your doing it to.
Thanks for your time.
Dave Hunt
Movieman@Xtremesystems
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  #54  
Old 29th October 2011, 08:22 PM
DFire DFire is offline
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Very well put Dave
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  #55  
Old 31st October 2011, 02:17 PM
Da-Grizz Da-Grizz is offline
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Da*m right Sir MovieDave , well said .

VBest Regds Da-Gizzly .

PS: Let us here have no foolish poll about "Changing" the inclusion rules on the "commercial" asspect - that WOULD exclude many fine projects (check out the prime number ones for a start !!) - ALSO would exclude the various new projects that NEED the DC Vault support to start !!

Yep , I too used my divi to fund more nodes - If'n we want an "uncencored(*)" internet experiance - this is a noble start (Check out WickiPedia(*) on DC search engines and see where the Big boys funding goes to [Wicki - cencored(*) ? - you bet ]- 'nuff said )
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  #56  
Old 31st October 2011, 03:42 PM
DigiK-oz DigiK-oz is offline
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Too bad discussions like this need to end up in a lot of name-calling from all involved - the ones in favor of a project being in the vault, the ones against it being in the vault and even the one that actually runs the project

This is not about the way Majestic is being run, this is not about whether or not the admin is a nice guy, this SHOULD be a discussion about commercial projects in the vault - yes or no. As it is, this thread is a useless collection of name-calling, mud-slinging crap.
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  #57  
Old 31st October 2011, 04:40 PM
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Unhappy

You won't have to worry about me anymore because I quit. Those of you who pay attention may have noticed that most of the Ars people quit doing the vault long ago. The fun of vault competition got me back into active DCing quite a few years ago. Getting to the top was great fun. Being there was extremely boring. Being at the top means that everything you say must have some ulterior motive. Being at the top means that you're afraid to say anything for fear of being attacked. I couldn't even voice agreement with another poster from another team without being personally attacked. Pitiful.

I'm sure some of you will be happy to see me go. It's a sad time for me because I loved the vault competition, probably spent too much time and money but it was fun. Those of you that really care about the vault have undoubtedly noticed that as Iconized said, "It has become very silent here lately." Why won't people post? Indifference? Fear of being attacked? Pitiful.

Since I'm leaving I'll end with a couple comments: mj12 isn't the only project that I feel shouldn't be here. Years ago I brought up removing the PSP Proth project. At that time Ars was in unchallenged 1st place and it would have harmed our lead to remove it. PrimeGrid has taken over the science and the PSP admin suggests you run it there. Here's the project page the vault links to (last updated in 2003):

http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=2665

I would think users from the newer teams would want this removed. TN is #1 and Ars is #2. No one will catch either for years if ever. It accounts for a whopping 350+ vault points/place. Ars quit running it because its science had been taken over by PG and PSP no longer made sense. Hardly anyone runs it and those that do, do it simply to gain vault position. As soon as TN passed us it became a subject we're forbidden to talk about because accusations would surely follow.

Another is Lattice. Nice project, but it hardly ever has work. When it does it's done in a couple days. I think work has been available for 2 or 3 days in the last 6 months. How can teams move in a project like this? Vault points/place are pretty much insignificant but they don't need the vault, there's not enough work.

So goodbye, although I'll continue with this thread if necessary. I'm more than tired of tiptoeing around worrying about other peoples misconceptions. Notice that the trolls never suggest anything, they only look for reasons to attack. I'll be off running projects I actually like and projects that I feel make a difference, so there's definitely an upside. I wish the best of you all the best and even wish the best for the worst of you. Happy crunching.

Thanks/Beyond

Last edited by Beyond; 31st October 2011 at 04:58 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #58  
Old 31st October 2011, 05:53 PM
Da-Grizz Da-Grizz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiK-oz View Post
Too bad discussions like this need to end up in a lot of name-calling from all involved - the ones in favor of a project being in the vault, the ones against it being in the vault and even the one that actually runs the project

This is not about the way Majestic is being run, this is not about whether or not the admin is a nice guy, this SHOULD be a discussion about commercial projects in the vault - yes or no. As it is, this thread is a useless collection of name-calling, mud-slinging crap.

Wot ? Me Sir ?? (amonst others) Name calling ?? NEVER . Just the facts Mam , nothing but the facts (Drag something'or'other ,TV series - circa 1960's - look IT [ARRggg] up on Wicki ) . [You trust them don't'cha ?]
Useless collection of name calling ? - I suggest you re-read the WHOLE thread(s) - no names or mud have been thrown there , just FACTS . mostly .

So , should "commercial" sites be allowed into the vault ? If no , then Vault entrys(*) go down by ~7 (seven) projects , if yes , then NEW projects don't get a chance to start up and get requognition(*) . [If you apply Alex C's approach with MJ12 to DC'ing - the fuure perhaps ? ]
DC Vault has been requognised(*) as one of the very few places where projects gain credulity(*) - and hence project participation and worthwile(*) status . DON'T change that please . {We wan't our FUN !!} (Oh and stats ) .

My vote (for what it is worth ) is NO Poll , but if there is , I WILL vote NO to disscrimination(*) Let the Primes roll on !!

Blimey Gott carried(*) away there )

Regds Da-G .
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  #59  
Old 31st October 2011, 06:36 PM
DigiK-oz DigiK-oz is offline
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I have read the entire thread. Terms like pathetic, too bad I need to talk to you, etc, are mud-slinging in my book, not facts. I totally applaud Alex's approach to his project because it made his project viable (in a way other projects should, I think). Still, I have my doubts about commercial projects being in the vault. Shoot me for it.

Fun? Yes. Stats? Most definitely, I am addicted. I (and many of my team mates) like the extra competition the vault offers. But let's keep things friendly, please (all of us)?

Regards,
DigiK-oz
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  #60  
Old 1st November 2011, 12:25 AM
alexc alexc is offline
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People are entitled to their opinions and my concern was mainly about correctness of some statements that were made about Majestic 12 project as well as the need to explain exactly what we do and why (all of it has always been covered on our forum so anybody who was interested could read it).

Before you decide on commercial projects spare some thought about DC teams that carry brand names of commercial organisations, for example Ars Technica is one of them: according to Wikipedia last year they started blocking readers who used Adblocker in their browser, don't think it was smart decision but they had a point to make, but does this all mean that Ars Technica team should be removed too? Not in my view.

So if some of the teams are run under trade names of commercial companies like that, then why oppose projects that are or had to become commercial? This point of view seems very inconsistent to me.

Ultimately everyone should decide for themselves which project they wish to contribute to - I would have never requested removal of our competitor from DC Vault, sadly I can't prove it since a handful of guys who've tried to do what we did either gone bust or given up: we are still fighting 7 years on without Govt grants, subsidies of other kind, donations: that is priceless to me even if the cost of keeping the fight would have been removal from DC Vault.

-----------

On the other note - I was just checking hard disk prices and they've *doubled* in the last 10 days!

Last edited by alexc; 1st November 2011 at 12:32 AM.
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