The Lord of the Rings

[Mattsky]

Hullo chaps/chappesses, and Happy Christmas/holiday one and all!

At this juncture, I feel I really ought to mention The Fellowship of the Ring film. I've waited over a decade for somebody to have a decent crack at the filmic possibilities of The Lord of the Rings, and by crikey, Peter Jackson has made a valiant attempt. The cast and crew have done a cracker of a job, and have remained faithful to the book's sensibilities. Apparently Tolkien himself was not in favour of a film, but I reckon if he saw the dedication that has undoubtedly gone into all 3 films, I'm sure he would be more than pleasantly surprised. Oh....one other thing......Liv Tyler!! Oh! Oh! Ah! Oh!! Ah!! ;)

[jema]

Seeing it this evening :)

Can't wait!

jema

[Bozo]

going to re-read the book first. But as somebody who rarely manages to get to the cinema, i must say that this is one film i really do want to catch on the big screen.

[Baptizer]

oh no! jema's in the holiday mood! nice christmas cap! hehe.
yea, LOTR looks pretty good....definitely a movie not to be missed.

[Berkswolf]

Saw it last night, my first visit to a cinema in the Uk since the original Jurassic park :eek:

Its absolutely awesome!! By neccesity with a work of that magnitude there are missed sections, but overall its just magnificent. Roll on films 2 and 3

[NorthernYankee]

I saw it wednesday night I thouroughly enjoyed it. Except for the four guys behind that obviously never read the books and made some of the stupidist remarks during the entire film.

--NY

[Surgeon General]

Originally posted by NorthernYankee
I saw it wednesday night I thouroughly enjoyed it. Except for the four guys behind that obviously never read the books and made some of the stupidist remarks during the entire film.

--NY

I have never read any of the books so I don't really feel the desire to go see the film. Maybe I will rent it on DvD some day. I would not want to go see it in a theater or I might become one of the people that NY is talking about
:D

[dicki]

i saw LOTR on wednesday too and i loved it... i went with 2 people who hadn't read the book and they both liked it a bit but thought it went on too long and ended in a lame place etc etc

i think as a movie it's not that great but as a story it's brilliant and it is faithful to the books. the fight scenes were fantastic too :)

dicki

[Arsonist]

im going to see it this weekend sometime...but i have friends who have gone and seen it and they say it was pretty good, they did notice that the four hobbits didn't stop at the farmers mushroom place though. thats one of my fav. parts. but i guess they did have to cut out some stuff. other wise it would be "to" long.

[RanGer498]

loved it was really good loved the fight scene down below !the ranger my man ;)

[jerseygirl]

I actually was allowed to tag along with NY to see the movie. I read the hobbit but I never got to the other books. But I understood the movie, I really liked it and I suggest you going you all go to see it.


Jerseygirl

[jema]

Thought it was fantastic, it was intelligent in the way it economised with the plot, and I thought it did almost all the characters superbly. The Hobbits, Gandalf, The Orcs, Gollum and the Elves in general especially.
Any books that lives in your imagination is going to have some flaws on screen, Borimir was not my idea of Boromir, and I think that Galadrial is a next to impossible part to play and she was pretty feeble IMHO.
I liked the way they bumped Arwen up a notch in importance :)

The other inevitable point, is that charatcer development and dialog suffered simply because there is such a shed load of plot to get through, even if they have managed to cut a chunk or two out, but then this is LOTR, not a 200 page trashy horror novel!

jema

[tripodal]

just got back from the movie... quite long. definatly something i am happy for though. i am a fan of fantasy, and not truly remembering the books i read when i was 10... i was blown away by how the plot plows on... at every step a new turn of events.. and a new charcharter.
go see it, definatly worth the $8.00

TPA

[Jetrunner]

just got here from it....one word... AWESOME,, yes i have read fotr,, and the movie didnt change that much of it.. they did a very good job compared to most other book-films.... i was very impressed,, i was deciding between majestic (cause im a jim carrey fan,, although its not a funny film) and LOTR,,, im glad i went with LOTR,, VERY GOOD MOVIE

[Snufkin]

I just got back, caught the late show cause all the others were booked up. OMG what a fanatastic film. They stayed true to the main themes of the book which I was relieved at. I was worried that the film wouldn't convey the sense of histroy that the book had but it did. In fact it has even helped me understand the book a little better. The visualistion was amazing. The Shire was just what I expected, and the fight scenes :eek: I could have cried at the scene when Arwen was riding through the forest with Frodo with the black riders behind her cause it was so stunning. The characterisation is superb. It would have been difficult for any actor to play the parts Tolkein describes, but I think they pull it off. There is also a lit of time devoted to the power the ring has over the bearer, and the constant presence of Sauron was haunting. A truely thrilling film, I can;t wait for the next two. :cool:

[Jetrunner]

i agree with snufkin... great film.. many of the characters were exactly as i had imagined. the actors did a great job... great movie.

[The Therion]

was it SO hard to leave the story of the book alone and not alter it?

....cant imagine ANY reason for some minor but really meaningless changes they made.Like why did Gandalf say they should NOT go through the dwarven mines (while they were on the snowy mountain)? Why did they make him look afraid of going there? In the book it is HE who suggests it! :rolleyes: All this change of dialogue for what?

And although i liked Liv Tyler,her character just ISNT THERE in the first book!

And there were others ,that i cant explain.Parts that should not be there,and were....parts that should be there and weren't....

Sure it was a great film,no doubt.But it ows it to the books.So why not honour them a little bit more.It would have made an equally if not better film....

[tripodal]

finally someone to compare the book to the movie... i loved the movie but honestly cannot remember when i read the books.
so i would suggest you do what i would right now.

look from the perspective of the filmmaker and why would you guess that he put liv tylers charchter in the first movie? why did he reverse some dialogue? what reasons can you think of for doing that?

[The Therion]

The Liv Tyler addition was clearly for commercial reasons : one more babe in the first film (lets face it the film only had 2 intresting female actresses).

But it's weak a reson.At least for me.Would the film had made significantly less number of tickets if Liv Tyler wasnt in?

..nah.. ;)

As far as the dialogues are concerned...i haven tbeen able to think of a serious reason for changing them....

[tripodal]

perhaps it is to have the great reversal, where the boy begins to take control of the journey...
in my mind it seems to have allowed me to accept the later turn of events... when he takes off on his own at the end. without the dialogue where the boy decides weather to go through the dwarven mines, it would have seemed almost too unbelieveable for him to take off on his own like that.

[Jetrunner]

i agree with tripodal,, it had to prepare you for the fact that he could do something on his own,, and not have to always go by what gandalf said... good point

[jema]

I'm happy with the changes, I dpn't think they alter the plot significantly and there is so much character development to do, that I think they have to alter dialog to allow this.

Bringing Arwen in earlier and giving her some lines is again IMHO opinion a good idea, the original character in the book is a bit part with Glorfindal who is never seen again. So it is a great idea to allow Arwen some character development, although they are also twisting the book to make her a strong character, but I am happy with this to, as it is an improvement to the book.

jema

[The Therion]

i see what you mean tripodal-jetrunner

...but its not a good point because hobbits are hobbits.Not men,or elves or something else.It is not "IN" character for a hobbit to speak first and make decicions to show he takes control of the journey.

Besides ....who says he showed ANY initiative?? It was Gandalf in the film you ordered him to decide ! ;)

So he really showed no leadership,no courage,no bravery on his own.
He was "ordered" to make a decision and tried to make the best one,just as anybody would.

Why, by reading the book (where this dialogue is not there) it seemed to you "too unbeleiveable" that he took off on his own later?? (unless u havent read the book in which case ignore this question :D )


jema: is it ? (an improvement to the book) ? The director is a Tolkien fan.So how a Tolkien fan (big fan) allow some changes that are questionable to the least ? I can think only of one reason : it i$ made of a $pecial paper,green,with lot$ of number$ on it,difficult to duplicate,and smell$ nice ;)

[jema]

Given just how faithful to the book the film does manage to be, I'm inclinded to be generous in my critique of the film. It could so easily have been mangled beyond description or been utterly turgid in an effort to be totally accurate. I thought they got the balance right :)
I could be picky on a number of things, I thought for example the timescales between Bilbo leaving and Frodo leaving were very badly shown.

jema

[The Therion]

...not to mention that Frodo should look like a 50 year old hobbit,not 20 ! :D

I agree with you.Still there is a difference.

It all begins from what we're afraid of BEFORE we see the film !

You were afraid it would VERY different from the book.It wasnt,so you're happy about it.It met your expectations.But only because your expectations were not too ....demanding ;)

Others were afraid it WOULD NOT BE VERY FAITHFULL to the book (as it should be since it is the adaptation of one of the greatest books).These people were dissappointed that there were so many changes.Especially when they cant justify them even economically!

I'm somewhere in between.But i would have been of the second point of view if i had read the book recently. ;) (its been some years and i have forgotten many parts....i'll probably re-read it one of these days...)

Oh i remembered another one :

Why did they all start fighting about who the fellowship would be untill Frodo says he'll do it ?....since in the book Elrod decides?
I can think only that they wanted to show Frodo more brave.
I dont agree with the way they do that though...or the timing (his bravery will show later no need to build up a "hobbit-afraidof-nothing" character so early because later on a brave act wont SEEM so brave for Frodo since we'll already know how brave he is ,so the element of surprise fades) (....damn that was a huge sentence...sorry :D )

[Snufkin]

The book is a book, it was never designed to be made into a film. Tolkein even said that he didn't want to make it into a film. The expansion of Arwen's role was needed in my opinion. The human interest side of things is needed for a film; its hard to name a film that doesn't have this. Also if you read the appendix of the book, the Aragorn/Arwen relationship is talked about a lot. There is a whole narrative devoted to how they met, Arwen's decision to become mortal, Aragorn's decision to wilfully die and hand over the thorne to his son, Arwen returning to Lorien to find it deserted etc etc. I can't believe that this story wasn't written into the main book. Im not saying that the film was any better than the book, because its not, all Im saying is that expanding Arwen's role isnt some big sacrilige (sp?).

[The Therion]

many books are not written with tha film adaptation in mind.Maybe ALL books are written like this.Not just Tolkien's.
That doesnt mean we should go about and do whatever.
Of course some changes are due and neccessary.But some are not.

Some changes do good.
Some changes alter nothing.
And some changes do bad.

To be honest i enjoyed Arwen as a character (although Liv Tyler has strong facial characteristics while Elves have thin lines,lips etc...maybe get better make-up artists for the next films? :p )




PS: At the time it was proposed to make a film of it, WHO WOULD have agreed ? You need hi-tech equipment,experienced costume designers,make-up artists,photography,editors,powerfull computers etc. If Tolkien was aroun dtoday and saw the levels of realism that can be shown in a film....he would probably have proposed it himself :D

[tripodal]

when you think of the changes they made to the story, you realize that they arent to grevious... and to me most of them seem necessary.

why the movie was made.. it was made to do one thing. make money... make money from all of us who would die to see it... weather it be the book, word for word... or it be completly backa$$wards and wrong. they knew that either way people would go to see it and they would get thier cash.

from what i hear tho they seemed mostly true to the book, which is a great thing... IMO i believe that the changes were made to increase the acceptance of the film. nowadays people get dumber and dumber by the minute... and people can swallow anything that comes out of a movie.

we are all programmed to a certain extent... even to the point that if a movie doesnt have some elements of predictability we will never really accept it! as an example, if in the dwarven mines vs. the goblins or the balrog... what if noone had died.... what if the fellowship had slain them all ... without casualty and without challenge. that in someway could fit in with the book, and the bravery of the adventurers. but it would be too unbelieveable... even for a more open minded reader.

the director knows the vast majority of the audience will probably not have read the book, and if they did, they may not remember it.
i suppose it is the curse of those more intelligent people, who can read... and choose to read. that where ever they shall go, the dumbing down of everything will aggrovate them.

[tripodal]

Originally posted by The Therion
many books are not written with tha film adaptation in mind.Maybe ALL books are written like this.Not just Tolkien's.
That doesnt mean we should go about and do whatever.
Of course some changes are due and neccessary.But some are not.

Some changes do good.
Some changes alter nothing.
And some changes do bad.

To be honest i enjoyed Arwen as a character (although Liv Tyler has strong facial characteristics while Elves have thin lines,lips etc...maybe get better make-up artists for the next films? :p )




PS: At the time it was proposed to make a film of it, WHO WOULD have agreed ? You need hi-tech equipment,experienced costume designers,make-up artists,photography,editors,powerfull computers etc. If Tolkien was aroun dtoday and saw the levels of realism that can be shown in a film....he would probably have proposed it himself :D



Liv Tylers makeup is already done for the next 2 films... (assuming she is in them) all 3 movies are already done.
FYI

[Squeaky]

well i'm an avid fantasy and sci-fi reader BUT have not read Tolkien for 18 years! it was the second major series i managed - after David Eddings Belgariad - and i preferred Eddings :)

I've since read many authors who out tolkien tolkien - some better read, some worse - but i have the greatest respect for the manner in which he has shaped all that followed.

As for the movie, i really enjoyed it, it was a good epic action adventure regardless of link to literature, acted SUPERBLY imho. The film progressed the plotline nicely whilst achieving something Tolkien himself would have been glad to see - no not whether Bilbo had enough hair on his feet - but the scale and scope of Middle Earth, its history, culture, landscape and the fight between good and evil - the grandeur of the architecture which made us look back to a time long forgotten in the third age, the chaos of the orc and goblin society, the naivety of hobbits, the altered perception of elves and the mystery of Gandalf....all great stuff masterfully achieved.

I ask you all this, could the book be recreated on film any better???? You would need an infinite budget and a 3 hour movie every month for a year to do the epic story real justice.

2 tums up from Squeaks.

ps

what was your favourite moment/scene from the movie - I enjoyed Boromir's last stand but a most telling split second for me was the long line of elves striking in sequence against orcs during the remembered first battle...said much about both the style and grace of elvenkind as well as their ferocity and ruthlessness to me. damn i think im going to have to go watch the movie again :eek:

[tripodal]

my favorite part. you shall NOT pass... great acting and the falling of the balrog... i immediatly expected him to snare the wizard (im bad with names) by the leg.. but they let the balrog fall quite far eneough... they panned away and it was over...
i dont know what exactly led me to believe my first guess was wrong.. but when he did fall, it suprised me and definatly brought out a pang.

[The Therion]

tripodal : you're right about the $$ thing (i mentioned it earlier)

And yes the filming is complete for all 3 films ,i forgot about that...



originaly posted by squeaky : I ask you all this, could the book be recreated on film any better????



uhhmmmm....yes ! There always a better way when it comes to films :p


It's actually what tripodal said before. Big budget films are done calculating what kind of people in majority will come to watch it.
And allthough LOTR has been read by the millions, still the majority of viewers have not.So to them the changes and the "small" details and mistakes are meaningless (if they perceive them at all).


By the way Boromir was dead when Aragorn came to find him if i recall. (and died normally,as men do ,not after many seconds of conciousness and 3 huge arrows halfway through his body :rolleyes: )

And in the film the scene of his death was poorly done.Really :(
I mean we have seen this scene a hundred times, where the hero is hit repeatedly,pauses each time and superhumanly continues to fight.Since they chose to do the same scene,they should at least build some heroic choreography for it,some cool idea.

But arrows in the lungs and heart ? And he stands and fights for a good minute ? I think MOST of us ,of you can do better than that....

[tripodal]

your definatly right about that, i have seen that scene 100 times already... although i didnt happen to think of it at the time it still fit in the context of the story... in which each of the fellowship was a remarkable individual in thier own way.

[Snufkin]

Every scene was spectacular in its own way. I was very impressed by the different landscapes. The Shire, Orthanc, Moria and the glimpses of Mordor looked fantastic. Although I do have to say Rivendell looked like something you would find in Disneyworld. All the action scenes were breathtaking. Those flashbacks to the early battles were fantastic, and I can't wait to see what the later battles look like.

Wasn't the battle on Weathertop in the first book? Oh yeah, I was quite looking forward to how the film would portray Tom Bombadil but they cut him out! :D

[jema]

Originally posted by Snufkin


Wasn't the battle on Weathertop in the first book? Oh yeah, I was quite looking forward to how the film would portray Tom Bombadil but they cut him out! :D

Shame about Tom, but in the context of a film he has a big sign over his head saying "irrelevent to the story line" :( He was cut out of the animated version too.

jema

[Jetrunner]

i agree with snufkin...the landscaping was awesome.... almost exactly how i had imagined it...very good job. especially bilbos house.

great movie overall if i havent said it enough, even if you havent read the books, still very good and interesting.
*makes you wanna read the others if you havent already lol* :rolleyes: ;)

[The Therion]

yes indeed it was unexpected to cut out tom

[dicki]

i allways thought gandalf was scared of the mines of moria because he knew what was down there i'm pretty sure his quote saying he has "trodden that road before...." was straight from the book

i'm pretty sure boromir was alive when aragorn found him too... (maybe it was pippin and merry that found him) i'll have to re-read the book i do know the book tells of him fighting on with a flurry of arrows sticking out of him

the thing that disappointed me most (it's a very very small thing) was the great horn of gondor... passed down from generation to generation, legendary in that when blown in need, help allways comes... with that final resounding trumpet being heard all the way in gondor by denathor - boromirs father. yes this great horn sounded like a childerens party toy! parp! pah it should have made the earth shake! the ground should have split at his feet! the orks should have trembeled and wet themselves! but no... parp... pathetic... ah well... it couldn't be perfect

dicki

[The Therion]

My favourite part was a weird one !
It was when i saw who was playing Elrod !

Agent Smith from The Matrix ! And he was talking with the exact accent and tone, ...lol i thought he'd pull out some shades and call somebody "Mister Anderson" LOL :D

[tripodal]

definatly, seemed exactly right for the part.
i was suprised too

[GITster]

Originally posted by The Therion
My favourite part was a weird one !
It was when i saw who was playing Elrod !

Agent Smith from The Matrix ! And he was talking with the exact accent and tone, ...lol i thought he'd pull out some shades and call somebody "Mister Anderson" LOL :D

he didn't start rounding up sheep or anything did he? or a pig start rounding up sheep?

[weewilly]

i would have loved to see Tom in there they could have made the movie 20 minutes longer a full 3hr instead of 2hr40min and had the Bambdil(sp?) scene in there it would have added a little comic relief and made you realise how helpless hobbits are just like theroin? said in the book Frodo is never as brave as he's made out to be in the movie and I myself don't think making him look brave helps the story line any in fact all the hoobits seem more brave, and another thing I don't like that the other two hobbits (merry&pippen) just bumped into frodo and sam on the path and just tagged along for no reason at all they should ahve been worked in better(this is a major flaw) But in the end it's a movie and it is far more faithful to the book that alot of film adaptations ive seen and I really loved it alot(opposed to the toon) I cannot wait to get me mitts on the 3-DVD set(and star wars EP4-6 too,...:xdrool:)

[jema]

Good point, in the book all the Hobbits going off, is a well orchestrated plot between Merry, Pippin and Sam. They should have shown this.

I would have liked to see Tom too, but I don't think it could have been handled in a mere 20 minutes, and as it a whole lot of singing, something they have alos left out of the film, it would either have looked out of context or would have to have been changed an awful lot. There is a line in the book that they find themselves singing as naturally as talking when in the company of Tom!

jema

[weewilly]

i do see why they pulled tom out he is really not usefull to the plot much but that about merry and pippen bumping into them and just joining along is BS if i hadnt read the book id be confused as hell i mean most hobbits arent much on adventures and them tagging along is way out of character for hobbits we dont even know that they are friends of Frodo...ugh

[The Therion]

good point willy
that was somewhat ....un-hobbit-ish (new word alert :D )

[Lolboy]

Just got back from seeing the film - having never read the book, I had no idea where the film was going or what was going to happen next. It carried me along for the three hours without a flicker of my attention going elsewhere. Absolutely fantastic! I'm gonna go see it again. I was a bit shocked when it ended cos I didn't know it was in three parts! Can't wait for the next part.

Lolboy.

[The Therion]

u wont have ti wait long ,...about 11 and a half months ;)

[Snufkin]

read the book while you wait

[Jetrunner]

ya, that's what im doin, im re-reading the second book, just to see how much of it they change. lol

[Boysen]

Tom had to go... it is way long and doesn't really add much to the plot.

I personally liked all the changes, especially the conversation between Frodo and Aragorn at the end. That was a fairly major depature from the book.

My one negative on the film is that Sarumen seemed to get an awful lot done in the short time the hobbits were trapsing about the shire... That time sequence seemed a bit off.

Fortunately I have too young sons and so have an excuse to already see it twice :)