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Beyond
13th July 2011, 02:45 PM
AQUA has been functionally down since June 19. Their erroneous credit awards have corrupted the BOINC credit system and have invalidated the current DC-Vault stats. They promised to revert to the June 19th project backup. That was on July 8th. Still hasn't been done. I think either the project should be removed or at least suspended until they fix the problem.

DigiK-oz
13th July 2011, 03:56 PM
Well...

The credit problem is within BOINC, not AQUA according to several posts on AQUA forum as well as Berkeley. Reverting the credits is useless as long as there are still WU's in progress; They would screw up the credit system all over again. I think that's why it has not been done yet.

In my opinion, AQUA is a victim of erroneous BOINC code here (seems to be in the part of the credit calculation that handles multi-threaded apps, that (only?) AQUA currently uses). They decided to do a credit rollback to get things back to normal (a good decision imho), but need to wait until all units in progress have finished (or at least all test units), or things will start all over again.

They have been hit hard enough by the problem I think. Suspend, OK, but remove, not at this moment. Given the 14-day notice rule here, they'll probably have things back on track before that.

Maybe it is possible to stop loading the AQUA XML files untill there's a fix, and reverting the Vault scores to what they were on june 19 for AQUA?

Beyond
13th July 2011, 10:15 PM
Reverting the credits is useless as long as there are still WU's in progress; They would screw up the credit system all over again. I think that's why it has not been done yet.
All they have to do is cancel all current WUs, which is what they should have done a week ago. Since the DB is supposed to be reverted to June 19 anyway, all the WUs in progress are useless anyway. They're just wasting more of everyone's CPU time.

In my opinion, AQUA is a victim of erroneous BOINC code here (seems to be in the part of the credit calculation that handles multi-threaded apps, that (only?) AQUA currently uses). Maybe, maybe not. It's a moot point though. The project is broken and it's invalidating the Vault stats.

Suspend, OK, but remove, not at this moment. Sounds good. The bottom line here is that right now the DC Vault stats are invalid due to a project that is not fixing its stats problem in a timely manner. AQUA has been either MIA or passing out the equivalent of many years worth of credits/WU for nearly a month now. I think it at least needs to be suspended until fixed.

DigiK-oz
14th July 2011, 05:55 AM
Agree. Although they currently have only 5 WU's still active, there's a lot of nonsense going on there and their forum posts do not give much hope for a solution shortly :(

I suggest suspending it to get valid Vault rankings again, but keeping a close eye on what happens.

DigiK-oz
14th July 2011, 08:04 PM
News

User, Host, and Team credit were rolled back
I just set the total_credit, expavg_credit, and expavg_time values for users, hosts, and teams to be the same as those of 19-June-2011.

I'll be releasing a few hundred FP and TEST workunits to test the credit system. Please note that BOINC's CreditNew is at work now, and the amount of granted credit will not be the same as before.


Stats sites still show the credit as of July 14th though....let's wait and see

Razor_FX_II
15th July 2011, 04:42 AM
AQUA has been functionally down since June 19. Their erroneous credit awards have corrupted the BOINC credit system and have invalidated the current DC-Vault stats. They promised to revert to the June 19th project backup. That was on July 8th. Still hasn't been done. I think either the project should be removed or at least suspended until they fix the problem.
I have to agree with Beyond on this one. This is playing out badly in the DC-Vault stats and I honestly don't think it will ever be set right.

DigiK-oz
15th July 2011, 08:37 AM
Given the fact that they are currently testing the BOINC creditnew system (which is, in my opinion, hopelessly flawed and in it's very early alpha-stage of development), and the fact that they apparently have halted their stats-export (and the last one still holds the invalid credits), I have to agree. Suspend and 14 day notice for AQUA :(

Beyond
15th July 2011, 03:45 PM
Yes, it's sad but they won't listen to the advice of anyone. Now, despite being warned: instead of rolling back and doing a stats export they've disabled their stats export at a point where the billions of unearned credits are locked in place. It just seems like they don't care :(

Ungelovende
15th July 2011, 08:41 PM
I think someone should arrange a poll!

btw: the aqua stats was updated some hours ago

Rusty
15th July 2011, 10:27 PM
Poll added.. If you can invite a few of your team mates to vote, that would be good..

VictordeHolland
17th July 2011, 04:25 PM
Remove Aqua until they have sorted out their credit issues. Once they are sorted out, we can decide whether to include them in the stats again or not. In my opinion they can only be included again if they remove/delete all the stats which have invalid credits in them.

DigiK-oz
18th July 2011, 01:30 PM
The credit issue appears to have been fixed. So yes, they screwed up in not cleaning their mess quickly enough. The mess itself was, however, not (or not only) their fault. Mixed feelings, but after some doubts I voted NO.

Beyond
19th July 2011, 02:24 PM
AQUA is STILL down, as in no work for the last month:

http://aqua.dwavesys.com/server_status.php

It also soumds like they'll be instituting creditnew (at much lower credit levels). If this happens AQUA rankings will essentially be locked in place. Because of the massive credits that were previously awarded there will be little movement possible for new teams or older teams trying to advance. Another essentially dead project to make the Vault competition stale :(

Rusty
21st July 2011, 03:08 AM
So we are voting to remove it?

DigiK-oz
21st July 2011, 06:14 PM
AQUA is STILL down, as in no work for the last month:

http://aqua.dwavesys.com/server_status.php

It also soumds like they'll be instituting creditnew (at much lower credit levels). If this happens AQUA rankings will essentially be locked in place. Because of the massive credits that were previously awarded there will be little movement possible for new teams or older teams trying to advance. Another essentially dead project to make the Vault competition stale :(

True, but if having no work for a month is an issue, we might as well kill Lattice :) And as for the creditnew, I oppose to the whole concept...But we might end up with no BOINC projects if that is a criterium to remove. As far as I'm concerned, AQUA meets all requirements for inclusion, and doesn't meet any requirement for exclusion.

Beyond
29th July 2011, 01:13 PM
True, but if having no work for a month is an issue, we might as well kill Lattice
Might not be a bad idea either. Lattice has no work and hasn't for a while. The 64bit client is 2.5 to 3 times slower than the 32bit on the same WUs and there's no easy way to force the 32bit client (the anon platform appears to be disabled). Saw somewhere that the project has more computing power than it needs so we're probably not helping Lattice by having it in the Vault. Having an excess of computing power also results in no real motivation to fix problems either...

Back to AQUA. Still no work except for a few test WUs. Yesterday the admin posted that there are no plans for new work in the near future. Today it seems he is gone (a bit of a shock):

Hi all,

Just a note to let you know that I am no longer with D-Wave, and this will be my last post as AQUA's admin. And before you ask: I don't know what will become of AQUA.

Thank you all for your help during the previous years!

-Kamranhttp://aqua.dwavesys.com/forum_thread.php?id=874&nowrap=true#12070

If we pay attention to the poll above, the voting is currently 12 to 3 to disable...

Rusty
29th July 2011, 10:49 PM
AQUA has been taken down.

Beyond
24th August 2011, 04:02 AM
Posted on the AQUA front page:

News

Thank-you all
Dear volunteers,

Your contribution over the last 3 years to the AQUA@home project was critical for us to perform immense computations necessary for the advancement of our science and technology. We have published several scientific papers reporting the results of those computations, including our recent publication in Nature. We made sure to acknowledge your generous contributions in those papers, as your help was vital. At this time, however, we no longer have large computations requiring the computing power of AQUA@home. We therefore have come to the decision to shut down AQUA for the forseeable future. Thank-you again for the selfless devotion of your time, patience, and computing resources to our effort to progress the field of quantum computing.

Sincerely,
Neil Dickson

http://aqua.dwavesys.com/

Rusty
24th August 2011, 11:27 PM
Thanks for posting mate..

10:13
25th August 2011, 02:52 AM
It's always good to know you made the right call.