Which to buy?

[BigBen]

Hi Chaps,
What to go for ........should it be the Radeon 8500 or a Hercules Phrophet Gforce3 Ti500.......there a nice simple question for yer :D


Regards

[swoop]

Hi m8,

I got both cards ( thanks to a dead GF3 being replaced with a Ti500 :D) and its the Radeon pure and simple. It's right up there with the GF3 Ti for the numbers, display quality is better, FSAA quality is better and doesn't give so big a performance hit - 2x quality mode vs Quincunx = no contest, its much cheaper and the drivers are getting better all the time.

I love the Radeon !!!! :p

PS. anyone want to buy my spare GF3 Ti500 ?? no ? didn't think so :rolleyes:

[Gibbon]

Never thought I'd say this but.... Radeon.... the Geforce 3 ti is stilll just a Geforce 3... Radeon is cutting edge.... both nice but....

Gibbon

[BigBen]

After reading the below review I am not so sure about the Radeon 8500

http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2001q4/vidcards/index.x?pg=1


Regards

[The Therion]

swoop : dont know what your experience with graphics is,or what your perception is ,but at Tomshardware they seem to disagree with you 100% . The Radeon DOESNT have better FSAA, it HAS more performance drop and DOESNT have the same fps with the Ti500 ,according to their tests.Plus it has a hardware that is not supported well yet while the nVidia is fine out of the box.
I like competition (lowers prices) and i hope ATI continue to improve,but when one has to lay down the cash, sentimentalisms and impressions dont have a saying.Only facts.

Unless u dont trust Tom , in this case disregard what i said ;)

[nitan]

there is a SERIOUS problem when it comes to the GF3 Ti500 vs. RADEON 8500 debate....as some of you may know i have been tempted to get one of these cards for a little while now so have been researching the topic on the web.....the conclusion i have cum to is that the GF3 Ti500 is a 'safe' bet....its a kick ass card with gr8 performance....driver support if fantastic.....basically u cant go wrong with it..pure and simple.

the radeon to is good card....BUT...how good is it?...all i have to go on are web sites and reviews.....now depending on where u look the radeon can either be a GF3 killer or a damp squib!....i am very confused.....Therion u say that swoop seems to have it all wrong....but u have to remember that he has both cards and can test personally the difference.....wot we need are people here who have both cards to post their opinions about both cards from first hand experience....at the moment i dont know wot to think....which as i see it puts the GF3 Ti500 out in front...it is tried and tested and nvidia have legendary driver support.....i am thinking of getting both cards...testing them out in my system and then taking backthe worse one :p cheeky but at least i will know i have the best thing out there....

nitan :)

[The Therion]

look,in general there are things you dont trust and things you trust.
Or better say people.You dont trust the sellers and shops ,and you trust the users and the respectable websites.

Now our friend swoop here,is a user that has them both.He has no interest on selling anything to us,so there is no deceit involved.So we are more prone to believe him.

But that's not enough i'm afraid.You must know if the person has experience with what he's talking about.
I dont know swoop that well,if you do,ok.

On the other hand i see respectable websites (like Tomshardware) and respectable users like mdzcpa, that concur.

Now if i could, i would get both and test them myself.But i cant.So i would have to go with the next best solution.Listen to those who i think know their stuff. (come to think of it sometimes website testers may prove to be better that testing something yourself! since they have the resources to do more perfect and accurate tests...)

[Dewill]

As with a lot of thing's in life, yer have to try it yourself.
I have read many reviews, but most don't mean that much unless you have the same kit.
And even then the results are not always the same
So what do yer do, easy try it yourself.

Regards
Jed;)

[The Therion]

correct :)


...problem is (for me) i cant buy one of them,much less both :D

[nitan]

hi there therion, i cant afford to buy both cards either :p , but i am gonna rely on the returns policy of major high street stores, hehe......should prove to be an intersting experiment......still waiting on PC World to get the Radeon 8500 in stock....also wot u guys think is a better option the Radeon 8500 or the Radeon 8500 All-in-Wonder???....when i get round to doing this testing i will let all u guys know wot happens...but in the mean time i think we shud keep posting opinions on the cards....

nitan :)

[The Therion]

indeed should be intresting nitan,carefull not to get ripped off,ok?

if you want to also test the other features of the Radeon then yes go for the All-in-wonder. If you're intrested only in the image of games ,windows and the speed, then get the regular.

Either way i think the other features of the Radeon (video in,capture,tv etc) are of good quality.

The debate is more on the rest ;)

[nitan]

hi there, therion i appreciate ur help but i shud hopefully not get ripped off. PC World takes things back within a certain period, i think it is 14 day money back policy. so wot i was thinking of doing was buying one card at a time (prolly get the GF3 Ti 500 1st as i already have drivers installed) testing it and then taking it back to get the ATI, and then testing that. also i have another dilema!!!....

the standard Radeon 8500 can support dual display as it has VGA out, DVI out (flat panels) and TV out. The retail pack comes with a gender bender for the DVI out that allows u to connect a normal VGA cable to it.

As u may know my PC was dead for a lil while and i was using my laptop and dual screening using my desktop monitor. i have become some what....erm...dependant on dual screening now for programming and web browsing and like the idea of being able to do the same with my desktop. But i also wud like to have the TV tuner and decoding properties of the All-in-wonder. BUT the all in wonder doesnt support dual screening:( :confused: this upsets me...so if and wen i get one of the cards i am gonna have to make a tuff choice....2 screens or one screen and TV....

man oh man....is wish money was no obect...then i cud just have 3 PC's each with one card in it GF3, Radeon and All-in-wonder....:D

nitan:)

[Baptizer]

I am not going to get too technical...but i have also owned both cards. At first, i was displeased with my radeon(before they released the tru-form/smoothvision drivers). But once they did release these new drivers, things were better than expected. Games such as Counter-Strike, which normally looked 'ok' using my GF3 card, looked spectacular with tru-form enabled, all with no frame-rate loss.
Like i said, i am not going to get too technical. Frame-rates are all good to comparision, but screen quality is what is most important to me. And it seems as though the radeon just offers better quality vs a gf3.......good luck on your decision..

[nitan]

thanks for the info bap, still waiting ony my PC Wolrd to get he radeon in stock. hopefully they will have it soon.....so it looks like the Radeon is winning on image quality...hmm....gonna do some serious research on this....£220-£300 is a lot of money to spend on somin...

nitan :)

[The Therion]

maybe try to find other forums , video card specific and ask the users there what they think ,good luck ,keep us posted ,ok ?

[Baptizer]

Nitan, i know this is a silly question....but does DELL ship to the UK? I purchased my retail Radeon 8500 from dell for $203. They had(and probably will have it again really soon) a 20% discount on software and peripherals.......

[nitan]

i dont wanna buy from an online or mail order company as they will charge a restocking fee when i return the product...easier to buy from a high street store when it comes to returns

nitan :)

[Baptizer]

oh oh....cool....totally understand!;)

[swoop]

But that's not enough i'm afraid.You must know if the person has experience with what he's talking about.
I dont know swoop that well,if you do,ok.
On the other hand i see respectable websites (like Tomshardware) and respectable users like mdzcpa, that concur.
[/B]

LOL. I'm sure I'm not in the respectable users category :D

Didn't realise what a can of worms I opened up here. I'm not discounting reviewers or other people's experiences just putting up my own views. We've all read reviews and taken advice to discover that when we try something ourselves it sometimes doesn't match up to what we've been led to believe it should.
Radeon for me has broken the mold, it got so-so reports when it released but I have had it from day one and seen what it could do for the money then and each time a driver improved it and it just leaves me thinking what a great product it is. :cool:

[Pistol]

if your planing to play games with the 8500 you better look here
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=33586720&highlight=Colin+Mcrae+Rally

[nitan]

damnit still waiting on my store to have it!.....ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHH.....soon my pretty...sooon......Swoop i am more likely to believe you than review sites, how do we know that Toms and other such sites are not taking back handers?!?!?!?.....straight user information is the bset in my view.....but just to make sure i am gonna do the test myself :D...

nitan :)

[Baptizer]

Good luck....hopefully youll enjoy the Radeon....

[The Therion]

Originaly posted by swoop : LOL. I'm sure I'm not in the respectable users category

No, you may be respectable and experienced and reliable etc.
What matters is IF THE OTHER PERSON KNOWS that with a degree of certainty ! ;)

No offence intended swoop, i just like to be honest.For example i wouldnt buy a piece of equipment that costs 200-300$ , basing my buy on someone that hasnt proven to ME that his is experienced.Would you? ;)

nitan : tomshardware and other big players may be taking back handers but what makes them famous is that they have good reviews.If you start taking back handers at an alarming rate, at a rate which would make us NOt to trust them, we would have seen some really strange reviews from time to time.......like that a P4 1500 is better than a 1600+ XP ! for example.......

I too trust users the most.But not blindly.I know users that THINK they know ! Others that can swear a Hitachi monitor is better than a EIZO ! ( :eek: )

How many times has Tomshardware or anadtech said that a Hitachi monitor is better than a EIZO ? ;)

Pick wisely who to trust.It's not black or white.Users or review sites.It's a little of this,a little of that....Like i said the BEST is to ask MANY people (preferably video freaks,gamers,graphics freaks,designers etc) what they think in order to have a more complete range of opinions and pick the most frequent.
(of course many opinions sometimes results in many DIFFERENT opinions which is a pain :D )

[JMke]

XP1700+@1595Mhz (yea I know lousy O/C :p )
on an Asus A7V266-E

initially I was thinking of putting in a R8500, but after reading some of the incompatiblity reports & random crashes people observed
I spend a little more & got myself the GF3 Ti500 (who is priced quite low here)

I can get it to run 3Dmark2001 with core @ 280 / memory @ 600!
without visual glitches, but It crashes due to overheating
My 1st new year resolution is to get some H20 cooling in there :)

it's stable @ 269/592 with gives me a 9200 score in 3DMark2k1! :)

[nitan]

therion, i agree totally hence i want to try it out myself, if nothing else it will be a fun and enlightening experiment thats all, at the moment i cant actually afford to have own of these cards unless i buy in my credit card, hence if i do get one i want to make sure is the the dogs b0ll0x, all the advice u guys are giving me is being taken very seriously, i did not mean to disrespect anyone here on the boards, as a general rule people on these boards know their stuff, i include everyone who has posted on this thread (except myself :P ) in that grouping. ANY help and advice is always much appreciated. I have been doing some more reasearch on the topic and still all i can find are conflictign views, even from users, i think there is a lot of brand loyalty going on here!...which is good to an extent but not very helpful for people like me!....oh well, if PC world dont get their asses in gear i might be looking at having to wait till after xmas to get the testing underway.

nitan :)

[BigBen]

Hi,
I opted for Asus V8200 T5 Geforce 3 Ti500 Deluxe (AGP) - Retail
well it is christmas :D. For me in the end it was the driver issues that went against the Radeon.

Regards

[Silversaver]

Hi,

I would strongly recommand you buy the Geforce 3 Ti200, becasue it is damn cheaper than Ti500.

The new Ti200 now came with 3.3ns chip (so far only new Gigabyte has newer DDR on the card) And by theory, it suppost up to 600MHz of clockspeed on memory.... You will find that Ti200 and Ti500 have almost the same performace.... if you OCing your Ti200 @600:)

[The Therion]

totally agree nitan :) ,good luck


bigben : is it me ,or you seem to be an Asus fan ? :D


silversaver : intresting this about the Ti200....i thought they had slower memory on purpose so that it couldnt overclock so people would buy the Ti500...but if you did it.......most intresting ( evil conspiring grin :D )

[BigBen]

Originally posted by The Therion


bigben : is it me ,or you seem to be an Asus fan ? :D




Hi Therion,
It does seem that way :) I was gonna get a Hercules card but as there was not to much in the prices and I can record video etc with the Asus card I decided that was best for me. Horses for courses as they say :D


Regards

[nitan]

has anyone seen overclocking results on the Radeon, i cant seem to find any, if anyone has any info then please let me know...

nitan :)

[Pistol]

check it out here nitan http://www.rage3d.com/board/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=256582&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending seems like ppl with OEM cards are flashing it to Retail version also

[nitan]

WOW thanks pistol, looks interesting, thing is i hear that OEM products tend to have lower quality parts....wonder if that would become a problem?.....very interesting tho....will look into this some more....

nitan :)

[swoop]

nitan,

i have an OEM 8500 clocked 250/250 by default and my card will not run its memory beyond 270MHz :( the retail cards run out of the box at 275/275 so i would have to agree that the OEM are lower quality or maybe those cards previously destined for retail boxes that didn't make the grade.
my core happily runs at 300 even with the weenie ATI cooler and this seems to make a bigger difference than mem speed. i'm still gutted tho :mad: just have to wait 'till Radeon 9000 or whatever they call it comes out.

[nitan]

good info there swoop, appreciate that, i was tempted to get an OEM but i decided to stick to retail models.

nitan :)

[swoop]

Thanks to the link from Pistol and a lot of reading, that's one BIG thread :D, I have the Retail BIOS flash tool and the Vmem mod all planned. My OEM card will not go beyond 270 memory clock without major artifacts and I have tried some mini heatsinks on the memory + a case fan blowing directly on them. If as the thread says the OEM cards have a Vmem of 3.2V and the retail cards use 3.5V then no wonder I can't go any higher ! :rolleyes:
My core is good for 300 so I'll leave that alone, although there is a Vcore mod too if you want to try.
I'll probably be writing my next post using my emergency 1MB PCI video card :eek: here goes . . . . .