Does Anyone find this offensive?

[Surgeon General]

Hey All,
I got an email from a buddy of mine on a carrier. He was telling me about the latest wave of PC to hit the military.
I am not sure if a lot of you know about this but it's a long time tradition for the aviation ordanace people to write little messages on the bombs that they load on the aircraft.
It appears that they got in trouble because one of the bombs read "Highjack this f*gs"
Another one said "Payback is a motherf@*#er"
I see nothing wrong with the messages considering that they will not even be read by the target that is beaing serviced, unless the bomb fails for some reason.
I think the only problem we have is allowing the reporters on our ships in the first place, darn cnn, getting our guys in trouble :mad:

[speculative]

"All's fair in love and war." Otherwise, it wouldn't be love, it'd be like, and it wouldn't be war, it'd be a bar brawl... Totally agree with you Surgeon.

-speculative

[NorthernYankee]

Yeah I heard some of the same stuff from my friend that just got back last week, really pisses me off how PC some people are getting. I say Paybacks a B*tch.

--NY

[Surgeon General]

:D LOL, NY, How did I know you would feel that way? What kind of aircraft did you work on? The f-15?

[speculative]

So, what's a "PC" slogan look like anyways? "We're terribly sorry, but we had to blow the s(^% out of you since you're a scum-bum terrorist."

-speculative

[jema]

Well I find the bombs offensive :( not what is written on them.


jema

[speculative]

Originally posted by jema
Well I find the bombs offensive :( not what is written on them.

jema

True. It's too bad that they're necessary. Perhaps someday they won't be? I live in a state where you can see ICBM sites from the highways (there's 200 Minuteman III's here altogether). Also, growing up, B-52's flew overhead every day, usually about 2 or 3 of them a day. So, when I was a kid and the Cold War was still on, it was something that I thought about often.

-speculative

[Baptizer]

Ok, considering these bombs are a 'smaller' bombs(except for those daisy-star bombs..those suckers do some large damage), these slogans/rips are pretty clever. But what if you had to come up for the ultimate slogan, for the ultimate weapon: The Nuclear Bomb. What the US should do, is hold a slogan competition through-out the US. Whomever comes up with the best slogan, gets it plasted on the Daddy of all bombs!
Not only that, but maybe you can win like a front row seat to watch it get dropped or something.....and a big bowl of potatoe salad(or macaroni salad for all you potatoe haters). Just an idea......

We also need clever ways to stimulate the market again. I have a few ideas which i'd like to share! :D :D

[Surgeon General]

Originally posted by Baptizer
What the US should do, is hold a slogan competition through-out the US. Whomever comes up with the best slogan, gets it plasted on the Daddy of all bombs!




Sounds good :D
I would have to enter :
"If you can read this, you are F@#%ed"

[Player0]

"Say cheese when you see the flash" :)

[Ciccio]

The mushrooms on us

[The Therion]

writing on bombs is silly (fun....but silly)
writing on a nuclear bomb is twice as silly
making it look bad by the media is unfair

why people like to write such things on the means of destruction they're going to use.This is the question....

Perhaps blowing things and people out of the sky is not enough.
We must find a way to channel as much hate as possible .This is how we are tought and this is what we do....

[RaNGeR.GaV]

I think this is a tradition that dates back to WW2 (at least!) ... its like putting number of "kills" on the side of an aircraft. Theres no way anyone should try and stop this!!! I think its taken as a kind of good-luck superstition that will make the bomb hit its target.

"Open up and say AAARGGGHHHHH!!!!!!"


:D :D :D

[The Therion]

lol

[Baptizer]

writing on bombs is silly (fun....but silly)
writing on a nuclear bomb is twice as silly
making it look bad by the media is unfair

Therion, i dont think your gonna win the competition with this slogan!! it just doest flow off my tongue, ya know!
Lol, but you guys have some funny ones.

I am still trying to think of my slogan........sigh....

[The Therion]

but i was not trying to find a slogan ;)

[Baptizer]

Oh, i thought that was your slogan! hehe...sorry. I still havnt come up with mine yet....hopefully you all will like it!

[speculative]

Originally posted by Baptizer
Oh, i thought that was your slogan! hehe...sorry. I still havnt come up with mine yet....hopefully you all will like it! Baptizer don't be such a tease, out with it man! :p

How bout this one:

"Stop, drop, and roll."

-speculative

[Baptizer]

Hehehe i like that one! Ill have something by the end of hte weekend! hehehe

[The Therion]

this......is weird.......

[JohnyX]

Originally posted by The Therion
this......is weird.......

Your'e getting warmer. A good slogan needs to be short and to the point. Not sure what "this is weird" has to do with dropping a nuke though.

[Baptizer]

Ill agree with Johny...
I am not totally bought on the 'this.....is...wierd' slogan. It just doesnt have that 'umph'! I mean, yea, a bomb would be kinda wierd to find in your camel stall..........but...

[The Therion]

let me rephrase : this (thread) ...is....weird...

[tripodal]

DUCK AND COVER

( so your ashes will be easier to roll over )

id like to hang the terrorists with osamas turbin(correct right?)...

[tripodal]

see, I told you! shrooms are bad for your health!

[Baptizer]

hehehe....good ones tripodal.....

[smiffy]

How about "******. It didn't go off"

[Baptizer]

hey smiffy..welcome to the forum...
definitely a good one you came up with! But i dont think they would be able to understand what the *** were for! hehe...jk

[lorddrakul]

All a bit morbid chaps eh?

But for my tuppence h'apenny, I think that it shows a distinct lack of decorum on the part of the grunts.

It is one thing to prosecute a just war, though I will reserve comment on that in this case. However, it is entirely a different thing to stoop low behaviour in an attempt at humour.

It has been established beyond doubt that the weapons used are superbly accurate in that they can hit the dead centre of a big red cross, in that respect, I think it in poor taste that the operatives would scrawl such witty retorts on the ordinance being delivered. War affects innocents as it effects the combatants. I think it in very poor tatse that the military would engage in that sort of thing.

IMHO, it is not PC thuggery, it is due respect. Was it not Sun Tsu who wrote i the Art of War that your enemy deserves respect? When you fail to do that, the line between you and your enemy blurs, who is the just one?

[Baptizer]

I like what your saying lorddrakul...in fact, i like it so much, we might be able to squeeze that onto a bomb as a slogan...jk

[lorddrakul]

With you in a battle of wits, Baptizer, I would respectfully withdraw; I am loathe to fire on an unarmed man.

:)
;)

[Baptizer]

Yea, i totally agree with you though....it some extent. I feel for all the civilian casualities that are caused from bombs, definitely saddens me. And from a few occasions i have read, the accuracy of these bombs seems to not always be exact which leads to this.
But personally i dont respect the Taliban...not one bit(aka, i dont respect the enemy). But i have yet to read that book. personally, i dont know why i should have to respect them(do i underestimate the enemy? no. But neither do i respect them).

[Boysen]

Personally I'd sign one of those dahrlins myself.

I have absolutely no respect for the Taliban or Laden and Co., and sincerely hope that they are all dead soon.

I do have the utmost respect for the 300+ public service folks in NY who ran into harm's way and died, and for those who crashed the plane they were on. These folks sacraficed their lives to save the lives of others.

The only thing politically correct about this war is that some of the enemy still live. As concentrated as they are in the hills, with no civilians around, there really is no reason that we are not dropping truck loads of daisey-cutters on them and ending this whole thing now.

The goal of war is to kill the enemy as fast as you can and win the war as quickly as possible. To do otherwise jepordizes the lives of your own men and women, your allies, and civilians.

[lorddrakul]

I think I should clarify my invocation of respect in this circumstance.

I do not condone in any way any violence. I do not believe that anyone is ever entirely justified in employing violence, though this is a world of practicalities and grey areas. However, the killing of innocents, whether it be Belfast, Khasmir, Madrid, New York or Mai-Lai is inexcusable.

The kind of respect I am talking about is what Baptizer indentified as not underestimating the enemy. I mean that in both ideological as well as credible threat terms. However it is extended to the treatment of prisoners and the actual prosecution of war too.

I do agree, writing messages on bombs is a small act, but it betrays a sensibility which to me is worrying in the armed forces of the most powerful nation on the globe.

As Boysen said why not simply use the daisy-cutter bombs to get them all at once. Such tactics are unworthy of a power such as the US. Extreme measures like that, as opposed to more conventional measures are only justified when there is a definite reason.

Put simply, if the just prosecution of a war descends into indiscriminate killing just to eliminate the possibility of missing a terrorist, then that is not a just war as justice will not be served.

What Boysen described as the object of war, killing the enemy as quickly as possible to win as fast as possible, is a worthy goal, but must be balanced against justice. This is not total war. This is not the passage of the Golden Horde. This is supposed to be the exacting of justice.

[Surgeon General]

I for one don't give a second thought to any civilian casualties that resulted form our attacks. The "smart" ones started to leave as soon as the WTC was ATTACKED because they knew that sooner or latter we would attack back. In fact I feel a sense of joy over the thought that some of the people I saw on T.V. celebrating the ATTACK on the WTC might have been collateral dammage.
I only care about MY people, MY brothers and siters that were ATTACKED for no good reason.
You know something, the ATTACK on the WTC has been in some ways likened to the attack on Pearl Harbor, But I think that Pearl as a "justified" target, not to say that I feel it should have been bombed or anything, but it was a military target. THE WTC had only some small contigency of military people working there (or so I heer). They went after our people and not our military and for that they deserve nor do they get any respect.
Ans as far as that son of a b**** john walker, F^^^ his @$$, leave him over there, treat his punk @$$ like all the rest of the taliban since the little f^^^er wants to shoot at our soilders then say "I am an american" "I want to go back to the U.S." Only way that piece of $h^& should come back here is in a pine box, or a standard olive green military body bag.

[lorddrakul]

Thank you for that eloquent, even and reasoned response.

However I must point out one or two minor flaws in what was otherwise a fine statement.

First of all, thanks to the global media, I think it safe to say that most people pretty much saw the same footage of the horrendous incident in question. I think it also fair to say, that most people saw the footage of the people celebrating the attack on the WTC. However, unless I am sorely mistaken, they were actually Palestinians. Now I am aware that many people are geographically challeneged, but the Israel is a good long way from Afghanistan, as such, I am unaware of how exactly they could have been colateral damage in any attack against the Taliban, given the legndary accuracy of modern munitions.

Secondly, the ordinary people of Afghanistan have not had a say in the way their country has been run for quite a while. Therefore it is a far stretch to say that they are as legitimate a target as the Taliban. So, to say that it matters not that they might be injured or killed in any prosecution of the Taliban is to adopt the very attitude of those who perpetrated the WTC attacks.

I find it staggering that someone could reasonably argue that an injustice perpetrated against them gives them the right to respond indiscriminately. Ghandi said "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind".

I am not saying that the injustice should go unpunished, I am simply saying that to adopt the tactics of the terrorists in response to their terror makes you a terrorist, irrespective of the flag you fly.

[The Therion]

u can also go back some pages in off topic and Problems (maybe) forums ,where we talked of this again (also maybe in news forum)

lorddrakul where have you been? havent seen you for soem time!
welcome back
and here's a vote for how you expressed yourself in this subject :D




....uh-oh cant vote....just noticed now....oh well....mental note :D

[dicki]

hi lorddrakul, it's been a while, hows tricks?

i've got to agree with you, though i couldn't have stated it so eloquently, i don't get much time to read the art of war and other books like that but i have studied martial arts for a fair while and it's true you must allways have the utmost respect for your opponant because you never know how good (or bad) they are. take your eyes off them for a second and you could be dead. if they are laying still on the ground expect them to jump straight up and have a go at you. but also only use the skills and strength you have learned when you are attacked and in danger yourself and only use what you need to stop them.

if bin laden and his other top guys are even still in afganistan i will be very surprised, i'm laying bets that he was the first to shave off his beard, he's not stupid, he's planning on living to fight another day, so everyone is just going to have to keep thier guards up.

dicki

[Surgeon General]

On point one you are 100% right, I think I even pointed the same thing out to some1 else on this board, don't know how I could have forgoten that.
Point two the ordinary people allow there country that way by not doingsomething about it. If they don't agree with the way it's run they should uprise against it, yes even if this means death or move the hell out.
We are not using the same tactics as the terorist because we are not targeting civilias, the civilians that die are just collateral, just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Should we stop bombing simply because the enemy places hideouts in civilian areas? HELL NO !!! Think about it, if you are in a counrty where the powers that be have just launched a War against another country, would you live right next door to a military base? or a hideout? place of opperations, control center? It's not like the civilians don't know who the people living next door to them are. I would rather go live in the sticks then have the posibility of getting blown to hell.
Civilians die, it's just a fact of War.
A funny thing I just thought of, My sister is a junior at State this year, she is part of this peace group that does not think the U.S. should be at War. I find it sooo funny that these kids are yelling and protesting about human rights, peace, free speach, yet don't stop to think that it has been War that has given them the rights.
It has been people giving there lives that has granted them the rights they yell about.
Anyone else find it funny that some muslims here in the states (not saying all here) protest what we are going yet they themselfs are not at home? They have chosen to come to the U.S. to get an education, make a better life for the kids and such, why? Because they have the freedom to do so. If they loved it so much back in there country why did they leave?
I was watching the news here in San Diego, they have arrested some muslims students here with expired student visas and some with student visas that are not even going to school, what happens? People start to cry about how there human rights have been violated and that they should not be in jail...Hello, they broke the f^%$ing law.

[Boysen]

Originally posted by lorddrakul
However, the killing of innocents, whether it be Belfast, Khasmir, Madrid, New York or Mai-Lai is inexcusable.

As Boysen said why not simply use the daisy-cutter bombs to get them all at once. Such tactics are unworthy of a power such as the US. Extreme measures like that, as opposed to more conventional measures are only justified when there is a definite reason.


Hiya Lorddrakul,

Since your response to my post is a bit further up I thought I'd quote it.

Can not say that the killing of innocents in war is inexcusable, though it should be avoided if possible. The Talibans, and more specifically the PLO/Hamas, have a history of putting thier terrosist centers in civilian areas. In actuality they are the ones responsible for the civilian deaths. While precison strikes and smart weapons can mitigate civilian casualities, terrorist centers have to be taken out inspite of the potential for civilian deaths.

Too it is somewhat the responsiblity of those living in the terrorist areas. If a Hamas center goes up next to you it may be time to move no matter the difficulties in doing so. Also, as far as women go... most wives know what their husbands do for a living and if they are following them around to terrorist bases then they too are fair game. If the children get wasted in the process again it is the fault of the parents. We can not take responsibility for other peoples stupid mistakes during time of war.

The daisy cutter remark is not quite on. There is no reason not to use them as there are no innocent civilians in those mountain caves. Might as well take out those unwilling to surrender totally and fast and not risk American or allied soldiers lives, which a more convential approach would entail. They are afterall being given the chance to surrender.

As always...

[Baptizer]

I saw "Pearl harbor" this weekend....was deifnitely surprised how good it was. Very moving, very emotional......definitely surprised me considering who directed it..

[RanGer498]

ah its just a way to vent a little !i dont see anything rong with a message on abome ..but lets remember why we are doing this !

[UIM]

I WILL STICK IT IN THEM EARS SO YOU CAN HEAR ME COMING.

[UIM]

that's it thanks

[Fireblade]

:confused:

Blimey!! Necro thread resurrection, or what!? I think that must be a record? 5 years since the last post :eek:

And given what you've said in both those posts... I have to 'say'... :confused: :scratch:

[lechumbl]

Hi Davey,

Would the two posts be considered getting a post count up? :D

What the heck, yes, put writings on the bombs and let 'em rip!! :p

Take care.........

[russkris]

ZAP... :scratch:

[BigBen]

:confused:

Blimey!! Necro thread resurrection, or what!? I think that must be a record? 5 years since the last post :eek:

And given what you've said in both those posts... I have to 'say'... :confused: :scratch:

hahahahhahaahahha :D ... I started reading from the beginning then noticed certain names followed by the post date :rolleyes:

[Fizban]

yup 5 years is a record ! Man I have to buy some Christmas presents today, not brought even one yet !.