Project Removal

[russkris]

It is time to discuss the removal of some projects from the Vault. As far as we can see the following projects are possible candidates for removal.

BBC CP: dead so can be removed
Dimes: no updates, seems dead to me even tho the clients work and we get credit so should be checked
Einstein@Home seems dead but should be checked
Hashclash: unreachable.. dead.. so can be removed
LHC@Home: no work.. no stats.. so should be checked
Predictor@Home: taking a break..how long? no idea... so should be checked
Simap: no work.. so should be checked
Red Library: seems dead so can be removed
Ubero: dead also I think but should be checked

Those marked as "should be checked" will be contacted and if no response within a week will be removed.

Comments, additions and thoughts please :)

[umccullough]

Define "dead"

BBC not accepting new users - but still apparently giving out WUs...

Dimes is definitely still alive and working - not sure what you mean by "no updates" or "dead" per-se - whether the results of this project are worth a salt is ... something else.

Hashclash has been unreachable for months.

LHC is just now making progress on their move to a new location. I get the occasional WU for it - but the stats problem sucks.

Predictor@Home looks like they're ramping up again now - and may be releasing some new client software soon (and new work?) - I still can't create an account here, however, as it's still closed.

Simap has been giving out WUs off and on. I just grabbed some a few days ago in fact.

Red Library DLV definitely appears to be down - and basically the 1.0 project is retired. Nowhere to even register or get a client I don't think.

Ubero definitely appears dead, server says down, clients don't connect or get work.

[solarflare]

I'm not aware of any issue with Dimes
or Einstein@Home ....

[russkris]

03.02.2007 12:10 UTC
Migration is coming along but a little slower than we thought as we iron out every last bug/feature(depending on your viewpoint). We will be completing the move this month though. To keep you happy and to show you the project is still available to do work even during the migration we put up some more work units over the weekend, hope you got some.
We do browse the forums and Neasan does post on there in a vain attempt to keep you all happy.
Later days,
Neasan and Alex.
.

[vaio]

Hi Rusty :)

Dunno about lots of the above projects but:

I thought one of the rules was that a project had to be open to new users therefore BBC CP is questionable.
Did it not recently get a short term extension to it's original runtime?
Seems a candidate for removal.

Red Library is definitely out to pasture it seems and should be removed forthwith.

Just wondering..........are there any question marks hanging over Seasonal Attribution?
That's a project I hope to work on more in the future.

[russkris]

See this is why we posted in the open forum and not have a PM war between the Vault Owner and Admin..

It's hard to keep track of every project in the vault, well for me anyway, I get some many emails from peeps put their eg: Volker about new projects and I spend most of my time tracking down whats going on...

I am clueless at this stage because E@H looks to sending work
and
DLV 1.9 has gone back there is a plan to release 2.0 at sometime, hence why I am trying to get a date out of the project admin....If it is soon, bareing in mind the stats links will be the same, maybe it should stay. And then theres the factor of will the new credit be added to the old credit.. but then again that has nothing to do with the addition or removal to the Vault

[vaio]

Red Library...........dead in the water for months with nary a peep from those running it.
I think it should be dumped til they can prove they can run a project and handle decent server loads.

Just my tuppence worth.:D

[russkris]

I understand ya Vaio-dude..

But I have contacted them via the forum and hopefully we can get some answers

I am the same, I am a bit nutted about them not even sending an email out, regardless of Wang's post... He states

That is unfortunate, and we understand that it's annoying too russkris. When the server went down, even we had no warning...and no email access for a while.

If this had of been a temporary glitch, we would have contacted everyone asap to let them know what happened (and as always, posted news on this site + on the forum). However, the server was down for well over a month. I wish we were in a position to have multiple dedicated servers so that we could do load balancing, slaving, etc....but we simply don't have any $ to spare (all the cash we have goes on this box and our ssl cert, domain registrations, etc).

Please read the news item here: https://www.readyresponse.org/index.php?item=article&id=84 - it explains the trouble we had, what happened, and the steps we had to take to resolve it. It also explains where DLV 1.x has gone.

Thanks,

Wang

[vaio]

"and no email access for a while. "

Wow...........a 5 year old could get access to an email client..........I rest my luggage :D

[umccullough]

Oops, I left Einstein@Home out of my post - it is definitely alive and kicking!

Seasonal Attribution is doing extended work now (or at least, I have some units currently in progress - not sure if they're still giving them out) - but I think this is the last gasp of air for that project based on the recent tone around the new work units.

BBC CP is strange. I don't understand why they've closed new user creation, but were still giving out WUs last I looked. There has been some recent news about it on bbc.co.uk, but the project looks like it's winding down.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6268595.stm

I suspect the article came out because the project has produced results, is finished, and they are going to publish them now.

Note: I'm probably sensitive to the status of all these projects because I've been painstakingly trying to get Team Haiku established on them all recently - and struggling to gain credit! So a "down" project definitely gets noticed by me ;)

[BlisteringSheep]

DIMES seems to me to be alive. I still get work & the stats are always up-to-date. The project folks are also active on their forum.

SIMAP has work in batches once or twice a month (they keep their front page updated with when the next work will be available). There is also recheck work throughout the month (I've got one host that has had SIMAP work continuously since the beginning of January).

[umccullough]

Predictor@home accepting new users now!!

still no work though.

[Biggles]

It is time to discuss the removal of some projects from the Vault. As far as we can see the following projects are possible candidates for removal.

BBC CP: dead so can be removed

Not dead as such, there is still work being given out, stats are still being updated. However, no new users are being accepted and the type of work units this project issues are now available through regular CPDN. Basically this project was a slightly more user friendly version of CPDN for marketing purposes in conjunction with a BBC series. Series is over, they presented their results on TV, but the project science continues within the main CPDN project. No new users invalidates its inclusion in the Vault.

Dimes: no updates, seems dead to me even tho the clients work and we get credit so should be checked

Not sure what you mean by dead. It's reachable for me, it does work, it gets credit, anyone can join at any time and can form teams too. So what's wrong with it?

Einstein@Home seems dead but should be checked

A few server outages does not equate to being dead. This is the second biggest BOINC project, on a par with Rosetta.

Hashclash: unreachable.. dead.. so can be removed

Offline just now. Supposed to be back in future with new algorithms to crack; they were looking to do SHA next I think. Gone... for now, should be back at some point. Suppose it can be readded fairly easily if it returns.

LHC@Home: no work.. no stats.. so should be checked

Not dead. Stats are being updated on the site itself, it just happens to not be updating the XML files for exporting stats. This is due to resume soon, as the project has just been relocated from CERN to Queen Mary's College. Work does isn't constant, but it is made available fairly regularly. The project is likely to have a lot more work and more reliable stats updates in the coming months now that it has been moved.

Predictor@Home: taking a break..how long? no idea... so should be checked

They're writing a new version of the application, should return once that is done. How long that will take... I have no idea. I guess it fails on the grounds of not having work at the moment, and it's not even semi-regular just now. Could be removed, but may need readded at some point in the future.

Simap: no work.. so should be checked

Has a big batch of work once a month, sometimes twice, with the stuff that never gets returned from the batches made available until all results are in. I think it should remain since it's not actually inactive, it just has a couple of weeks with work and a couple without.

Red Library: seems dead so can be removed

Claimed to have a new project in the works that could possibly be made to take over from the current one in terms of existing rankings and stuff. But this project does appear dead. If anything ever does resurface (and I doubt it does), there would be nothing to stop it being readded.

Ubero: dead also I think but should be checked

Yes, dead, remove.

Those marked as "should be checked" will be contacted and if no response within a week will be removed.

Comments, additions and thoughts please :)

DIMES, Einstein, LHC and SIMAP are all definitely still active and I think they should remain in the Vault. The rest probably should be removed.

I'd be glad to see a bit of a trimming of the projects in the Vault. It's had quite a few additions lately and there are another couple of possibles in the pipeline. This shows that the Vault does have a bit of common sense and removes the dead wood that makes it difficult to compete in. It also freshens it up and will possibly get people to try some new projects again.

[umccullough]

Awesome status report Biggles!

Spot on too.

[Biggles]

Further to my last post, with regard to Predictor@Home, they are closer to being back online than I realised. They have beta versions of their new science application just now and had a batch of 10,000 work units only a couple of days ago. I think on the basis of that, we can say Predictor@Home is still active.

[Rattledagger]

BBC CP: dead so can be removed
Always intended as a short-term project to only run in combination with some BBC-programs, and was already extended some months due to the initial buggy wu's.

Will probably continue running out 2007 so already-running models can finish.

Was closed to new users 10. December 2006.
Is out of work since 16. January 2007.
Also, they're been changing wu-parameters server-side after sent-out, so even if someone reports an error-result, this does not trigger a new copy to be sent-out.

Dimes: no updates, seems dead to me even tho the clients work and we get credit so should be checkedNo idea.
Einstein@Home seems dead but should be checked
Up and running. Appart for a few server-problems resently, has steady work-supply.

Hashclash: unreachable.. dead.. so can be removedNo idea.

LHC@Home: no work.. no stats.. so should be checked
Up and running but has work infrequently. Hopefully finished moving by end of February 2007, so stats-dumps also starts working again, and hopefully more continuous work-distribution.

Predictor@Home: taking a break..how long? no idea... so should be checked
Up and running beta-software, but currently only has linux/mac-applications, with windows to follow "soon".

Simap: no work.. so should be checked
Delivers new work start of every month, and possibly around middle of month.

Red Library: seems dead so can be removed
Ubero: dead also I think but should be checked
No idea.

[Accs]

It is time to discuss the removal of some projects from the Vault. As far as we can see the following projects are possible candidates for removal.

<list removed>OK. I'm sure that some of these projects will be declared "dead", and will be removed from the Vault. This is just housecleaning, and should be done. What happens to the points that teams have accumulated? I see three possibilities:


Keep the final points intact. This gives the teams permanent (or at least long-term) credit for the work they have performed on the project, which is good. The bad part is that it will have a tendancy to cause stagnation in the ranking, which would be bad. Overall, not especially good in the long run.
Drop the points completely. This is great for competition, but it removes all credit that the teams have built up by running the removed project(s). Overall, this will have the effect of causing teams to avoid projects that they see as "short-term". While good for competition, it will hurt the ability of small projects to attract enough people to complete them in a timely manner. Overall, not especially good for small projects.
Age the points off. As an example of what I mean by this, let's say that it is determined that points will be aged off over the period of a year. This would mean that after a year, the points would be removed from the Vault, but in the meantime, they would be adjusted to be less important. This could be done my multiplying the residual points by a value (0.99 each day gives good results) on a daily, weekly or monthly basis to slowly reduce their impact. This will still help to keep the rankings from becoming stagnant, while making sure that small projects will attract users. It is, however, slightly more difficult to implement. It is my belief that this would be the best solution for the Vault.

[Nanobot]

OK. I'm sure that some of these projects will be declared "dead", and will be removed from the Vault. This is just housecleaning, and should be done. What happens to the points that teams have accumulated? I see three possibilities:


Keep the final points intact. This gives the teams permanent (or at least long-term) credit for the work they have performed on the project, which is good. The bad part is that it will have a tendancy to cause stagnation in the ranking, which would be bad. Overall, not especially good in the long run.
Drop the points completely. This is great for competition, but it removes all credit that the teams have built up by running the removed project(s). Overall, this will have the effect of causing teams to avoid projects that they see as "short-term". While good for competition, it will hurt the ability of small projects to attract enough people to complete them in a timely manner. Overall, not especially good for small projects.
Age the points off. As an example of what I mean by this, let's say that it is determined that points will be aged off over the period of a year. This would mean that after a year, the points would be removed from the Vault, but in the meantime, they would be adjusted to be less important. This could be done my multiplying the residual points by a value (0.99 each day gives good results) on a daily, weekly or monthly basis to slowly reduce their impact. This will still help to keep the rankings from becoming stagnant, while making sure that small projects will attract users. It is, however, slightly more difficult to implement. It is my belief that this would be the best solution for the Vault.
It is option 2 as that is how the Vault was designed :)

[Accs]

It is option 2 as that is how the Vault was designedIs there a particular reason for this? As I said in my earlier post, I think option 3 would be better for the Vault.

Although some code changes would be required, it shouldn't be too difficult.

[Biggles]

I'd imagine the main reason is just that the admins don't really consider it fair to keep points for a project people can no longer compete in. Aside from that, even if they did consider changing the way it works, several projects have been removed already and I don't imagine the stats have been kept for them.

[umccullough]

If you think about it - some of these projects have already had a "grace period". By the time a project is finally removed, I suspect it will have been in the vault for some period of time where it was unfair to new teams trying to compete and get into the action. I know this to be the case with Red Lib DLV and Ubero personally.

With a large enough wall to overcome, I don't see that smaller teams would be incented to try hard enough. The newer/smaller teams will focus on the newer projects rather than the existing projects - causing the older/bigger teams to put more effort onto the newer projects in order to maintain their dominance across the board.

So, eliminating the "dead" projects/points entirely makes sense from that perspective.

It would be nice to have an "archive" section though - for the older teams to refer to and gloat about :)

[Accs]

OK. Good reasons. Thanks.It would be nice to have an "archive" section though - for the older teams to refer to and gloat about :)I agree.

[russkris]

I agree with the archive section, but then again I am not the coder.. Nano is the man and he may not have time at the moment..

The Vault only has 1 coder....

[vaio]

Whichever way you decide to go, I for one think you guys do a great job :)

[vaio]

Any decisions on projects in/out yet?

[Toutouf]

It looks for me that those 5 projects have been now removed (and only those one) :
BBC-CCE, HashClash, LHC @ Home, RedLib and Ubero.

Can anyone from "inside DCVault" confirm my list is OK ?

[russkris]

:thumbsup:


Correct

[Beyond (Ars)]

Whichever way you decide to go, I for one think you guys do a great job :)

I'll second that. Thanks a lot for all your hard work and for taking heat from us sometimes!

[N.V.M.]

although it makes you wonder why those other projects were on the list. How hard, for example, is it to check to see if Dimes was still running?

scary

[russkris]

:lol:

[KAMCOBILL]

Hi All,

I just dropped in and figured to break the 1 month of silence since the projects have been deleted.:D

Happy Crunching