PI Segment

[Toutouf]

Project Home Page :
http://pisegment.vicp.net/index.aspx

Very little chinese :bow: pure mathematical project.
(The right place for Ninjas :D. )

Only 5 teams (groups) at the time.
They do have rules like
Total Upload of the founder must be more than 80.
Say 80x2 hours on a P4 2.8GHz.

Sure they would be happy to be registered in the Vault. :)

[russkris]

Looks interesting.. Wheres the stats

[russkris]

Found em....

[Toutouf]

Statistics / Group :
http://pisegment.vicp.net/stat/groupstat.aspx

Default ranking based on "Upload". (Results returned).

[Toutouf]

Hi russkris !

I saw you joined the Chinese PI. ;)
And downloaded 20 WUs, and didn't upload any.
Be carefull with deadline...

P.S. : Did you read this one ?
Cost of Download100Reward of Upload150Reward of Upload (expired)120

And this about Team founding :
The credit of the founder must be more than 5000 (will be deducted after group generation).

[russkris]

yeah I know 5000, what a load of smelly stuff... so ya upload all these bloody units to get to 5000 just to create a teamm.....Hmmmmm

[StoneGnome]

How does this work?

There are 5 teams so far and none of them have 5000 points!

Edit: Ok I see it now credits are only shown on the indiviual page.

Strange I have 1500 points already and havn't returned a single unit yet.
Perhaps it's a chinese lottery :)

[StoneGnome]

all these bloody units to get to 5000 just to create a teamm.....Hmmmmm

I'm not sure your cut out to be our group leader for this project Rusty.
It says on the team creation page that the group leader should have the ability to summon the all the members of the group.

Now I can send the instuctions on how to create the pentagram and human blood shouldn't be a problem but I have no idea how we're going to find a virgin... or was that another ritual?

[Toutouf]

How does this work?
...
Strange I have 1500 points already and havn't returned a single unit yet.
Perhaps it's a chinese lottery :)

You get 2000 points when creating account.
Download one unit costs you 100 points.
Upload one result gives you back 150 points.
Expired unit gives only 120. (Deadline is 48 hours. Look at CPUX / Exp.Time on GUI client).
Founding a team costs 5000 points.

You have 1500 points because you got 2000 and downloaded 5 WU.
Your score will increase as soon as you send results back.
It can decrease if your cache is to high. (Default cache is 5).

The "chinese points" should avoid to many lost units and fake teams.
It's a good idea. :)

[russkris]

Hmmmm sounds like a good idea

#
# accept new members and teams immediately upon registration

Doesn't exactly accept them immediately

[StoneGnome]

So they give you 2000 credits and you spend 500 to download 5 units for one machine. What if you want to put it on more than 4 machines?

9 hours later and you still haven't broken even with one machine.
Good job they don't charge interest. :)

I'll see how it looks after a couple of days.

[russkris]

:lol:

[JUST]

Hello guys! Thank you for testing it.

I'm the founder of this project.
You know the project is on beta test, so there is no completed manual yet.
I hope I can give you some tips on questions you encountered.

About the credit, it is only a technique to prevent from downloading too many WUs. Maybe I should choose another word to avoid confusion.

About creating groups, basically groups will be accepted only by providing a particular introduction. Specially, you could get it if you really want to without reaching the requirement. Just email me and tell me what name of group you like.

About the expired time, I set it to 48 hours only to test the relating function. I will be a longer time, e.g. 10 days, after deployment.

Moreover, a P4 3GHz can complete a WU within 2 hours. So perhaps russkris have encountered some problems. Please check the "Log" page.

[N.V.M.]

this is the nuttiest point/reward system i've ever seen. its crazy. jebus i miss DF.... :(

[N.V.M.]

and there are no more WUs available for this project...

[Meadmaker]

jebus i miss DF.... :(

:sigh:

Especially on protein changoever days

[russkris]

:welcome: JUST

Thanks for popping by...

[Toutouf]

Let have a copy of this one somewhere. :bow:


* 2006.12.05 About server transfer If everything goes well, we will perform server transfer in this week.
Since the server will be temporarily down for 6 to 12 hours at that time, we suggest that you may adjust the size of cache to a proper value.

Moreover, we recommend you modify the server address in client as soon as possible:
1. Exit client first
2. Open text file "config.ini" in the folder where the client is
3. Replace Line 2 "Server=pisegment.vicp.net" by "Server=www.pisegment.net"
4. Run client again

* 2006.12.05 Domain changed to www.pisegment.net We will grant www.pisegment.net (http://www.pisegment.net/) for our formal domain from now on.
The original domains - pisegment.vicp.net and chinapi.vicp.net, though available currently, will be disabled after server transfer.

[russkris]

Thanks Mate

[Toutouf]

2006.12.17 Target: The 2,000,000,000,000,000th bit of Pi. Here We Go!
Pi Segment has been formally deployed now.
Our target is the 2,000,000,000,000,000th bit of Pi (in binary).
Please download the latest client and start this challenge.

PI Segment now matching all VAULT rules. :)

[umccullough]

PI Segment now matching all VAULT rules. :)


Sort of... I still can't create a team - because the upload limit got raised to 200 (was 80 before right?).

I'm not sure I want to put a lot of resources on this project if it's not going to end up in the Vault. At least one of my teammates is skeptical as well.

[russkris]

Me to, I dont like the idea of needing points to create a team.. but having said that JUST created a Team Ninja for me...

[JUST]

er, I'll consider to get rid of the limitaions since we have had a much stronger server now. I need modify some components first to achieve that.

[Toutouf]

I'm not sure I want to put a lot of resources on this project if it's not going to end up in the Vault. At least one of my teammates is skeptical as well.

Project not in the Vault preventing people from joining it. :eek:
That would really be a sad thing. :mad:
I thought DC-Vault was encouraging people to join little projects. :bateyes:

Russkris,
I could understand it's not in the vault if Just isn't ready for getting to many more members at the moment.
You should ask. (Or you don't need to as I just will :D ).

Just,
Do you thing that would be a problem if PI_segment appears in DC_Vault and you suddenly get many new members ?
(I remember a "RedLib" project that got problem because to many new members joined at once).

[KAMCOBILL]

Hi All,

It looks like it getting a lot of members (255+ now) And the teams are up to 12 now. Newest created by umccullough.

Right now they are crunching 3 times the WUs as in the beginning. and I'd say by next week it'll be 4 X and so on. The servers have been holding up so far.

I think the problem Red Lib had won't affect this project due to frequency of connections to the servers. Red Lib because of the 10/5 limit crippled it.

Happy Crunching,

Bill

[umccullough]

It looks like it getting a lot of members (255+ now) And the teams are up to 12 now. Newest created by umccullough.


Yep, JUST was nice enough to create Team Haiku for me after a little bit of email correspondence :)

I should be able to get a couple of my team members on board in the next couple days ;)

So, if JUST allowed open team-creation, would this project be eligible for the Vault?

[russkris]

I would have to say Yes.... But it depends.. How long will this project stay open for....?

[umccullough]

Looks like there are 1.6 million work units, and so far only ~17,000 of them have been completed.

[KAMCOBILL]

400 Days at current rate. But, there could be more WUs. JUST would know more.

[umccullough]

Looks like JUST posted a news item stating that the team creation limits have been removed!

[JUST]

400 Days at current rate. But, there could be more WUs. JUST would know more.
Yes. A few more WU (no more than 10%) would be added for replacing the unreturned WU. I guess the task will be completed in 6 or 7 months.
After 2e15 was achieved, we may start a new challenge if most particpators wished to and all the scores will be reserved.

[KAMCOBILL]

Ya maybe it will finish sooner. We are doing 4000+ a day now and climbing.:)

Always interseted in exploring new projects. Maybe we'll have to get a record.

With the 200/5000 removed, that only leave the cap on Credits left.

[Toutouf]

2006.12.24 Upload and Credit Limits on Team Creation Removed
As the server is stable enough now, we have removed upload and credit limits on teams creation.

Just did it ;)

[russkris]

:woot:

[JUST]

russkris, do you need XML-style stats of teams?

[umccullough]

My only remaining gripe with this project is the non-stat-friendly "reward" system. I understand the intent to reward project members who went through the beta-test and all that - but honestly, it's a huge turn-off for stats people :(

I guess over time it won't matter much, as the previously awarded rewards may end up being just a drop in the bucket overall.

[russkris]

JUST... XML will be fine thanks.....Thanks for popping by dude

[KAMCOBILL]

My only remaining gripe with this project is the non-stat-friendly "reward" system. I understand the intent to reward project members who went through the beta-test and all that - but honestly, it's a huge turn-off for stats people :(

I guess over time it won't matter much, as the previously awarded rewards may end up being just a drop in the bucket overall.

Hi umccullough,

I noticed you have Rewards:D

[JUST]

JUST... XML will be fine thanks.....Thanks for popping by dude
I'v sent the usage to you by private message:)

[umccullough]

I noticed you have Rewards:D

Yes, I know - but I still don't like that system personally. I guess I prefer "stats is stats" style - in other words, just get points for work done :)

[Toutouf]

Yes, I know - but I still don't like that system personally. I guess I prefer "stats is stats" style - in other words, just get points for work done :)

I don't understand what's the problem...
It looks for me that we get only points for work done.
Default ranking in based on "Score". And Score is 1 point for 1 upload.

What I see is that this "Score" is the sum of uploads you did on previous project state (beta) which appears as "Reward" and current run "Upload".

Many other projects (like most Boinc projects) don't reset points to zero after alpha or beta. It's exactly the same rule that is applied here. The only difference is that here you can know how many points are coming from past tests.

[umccullough]

I don't understand what's the problem...
It looks for me that we get only points for work done.
Default ranking in based on "Score". And Score is 1 point for 1 upload.

What I see is that this "Score" is the sum of uploads you did on previous project state (beta) which appears as "Reward" and current run "Upload".

And maybe that's what it is - but that's not how it was explained to me in the Pi Segment discussion forums. I got the impression that "Reward" was some bonus given to the early testers, in addition to their upload points. And the recent "everyone gets 10 points reward for xmas" seems to support that impression here.

All I'm saying is that I personally don't feel good about it. It's not a deal breaker for me, just my opinion.

http://www.equn.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=14491&fpage=1

[JUST]

IMO, there is no absolutely fair rank system because evryone has their own definition of "contribution".

I think propagandizing is a part of "contribution" since earlier participartors will do that more than latter ones. So on some festivals, we will add a few rewards to all current participators.

Anyway, I want to the system is accpted by most people. So I will amend it to adapt majority.

Perhaps, we should propose some layouts and then vote.

[umccullough]

IMO, there is no absolutely fair rank system because evryone has their own definition of "contribution".

I think propagandizing is a part of "contribution" since earlier participartors will do that more than latter ones. So on some festivals, we will add a few rewards to all current participators.

Anyway, I want to the system is accpted by most people. So I will amend it to adapt majority.

Perhaps, we should propose some layouts and then vote.

That sounds reasonable. But it currently sounds like maybe I'm the minority :)

The Free-dc forums might serve as a better place to get larger exposure - or maybe even directly on the front page of pisegment.

I would prefer if first and foremost - scoring data was clear and documented somewhere easy to find. A clear definition of "Reward" would be nice.

Thinking again about the "everyone gets 10 points for xmas" - I realize that instead of having multiple machines on a single account - I could have created a separate account for each machine - thus I would have gotten extra reward points for my team! This type of reward system is open to abuse, and doesn't accurately reflect the effort and work done by the project members.

[russkris]

Perhaps, we should propose some layouts and then vote.

I dont think you need to do that JUST, it is your project and you score it the way you want to... Rewards or no rewards, I would have to say that if you did reward crunchers for say christmas then umccullough is right, you would see peeps with multiple computers crunching multiple accounts in the one Team to boost the overall team score..

But it's up to you

[KAMCOBILL]

I'v sent the usage to you by private message:)

Hi JUST,

Would you like to email here for our team stats too?

Thanks

Bill

[JUST]

I dont think you need to do that JUST, it is your project and you score it the way you want to... Rewards or no rewards, I would have to say that if you did reward crunchers for say christmas then umccullough is right, you would see peeps with multiple computers crunching multiple accounts in the one Team to boost the overall team score..

But it's up to you
Ah, that must be a critical problem. umccullough and you are right. That may cause user create more accounts to gain more reward.
I will consider to set reward to test section contribution exclusively.

But, of course, the gift for xmas will not be fetched back:p

[JUST]

Hi JUST,

Would you like to email here for our team stats too?

Thanks

Bill
The current XML for team stats has "user control" since it shows all the teams of project which is only used to exchange data to other stats sites.

I'll release a account-free version later which only shows stats of a specified team.

P.S.
XML is ready! See news on Pi Segment.

[russkris]

Thanks for keeping us up to date mate

[Toutouf]

I can't reach www.pisegment.net (http://www.pisegment.net) this morning. :(

Is it the same for you ?

[JUST]

I can't reach www.pisegment.net (http://www.pisegment.net) this morning. :(

Is it the same for you ?
The earthquake near Taiwan broke down the cable.
They said it will need about one month to fix it completely :(

But I can visit Ninja now even though it's very slow and hope you can visit Pi Segment too.

[russkris]

PI site working fine for me :woot:

[russkris]

Just thought I would post the PI logo... :D

[JUST]

The Chinese characters mean: ability of computing is a sort of resource

[russkris]

ADDED...

All teams have been added..


Just to mark:
There are 17 Teams in Total, lets see if the Vault can get some more Teams to your project "JUST"

[cswchan]

Trying to download the prog. but it's taking forever... 68b/s... real painful... Crunchers Inc will be onboard as soon as the download finishes... :cool:

[russkris]

I will keep checking

[cswchan]

Looks like the download servers are not working... it has been sitting here @ 15% completed for the past 8 hrs.

[Accs]

Do you thing that would be a problem if PI_segment appears in DC_Vault and you suddenly get many new members ?
(I remember a "RedLib" project that got problem because to many new members joined at once).Based on the responses that we're seeing, the number of members isn't a problem, but network bandwidth DEFINATELY appears to be a problem. There are some SERIOUS problems downloading the DC app, and the web pages are VERY slow, or dead.

Perhaps the status of this project WRT the DC-Vault should be looked at again. Is there a site with more bandwidth that would be willing to host the download and web pages?

[umccullough]

My guess is the bandwidth problems are still a result of the earthquake from late December.

Someone who has it downloaded already could unofficially post the software I suppose.

I only have the pre-patched (1.4.0.0) version here unfortunately :( otherwise I'd throw up a link to it myself.

[shy24]

I just managed to grab it, so I'll host it temporarily:

http://thelle.ws/dc/PiSegmentV1.4.0.2.zip

[Accs]

SECURITY BUG IN GUI

When the GUI is opened the first time, it attempts to gain write access to the list of programs started at boot time. This is OK, as it needs to put in the hooks to start the client. What's NOT OK is that it attempts to gain the write access to the module list on subsequent initiation of the GUI. This is a POOR SECURITY PRACTICE. The GUI should look to see if the client is already in the startup list, and not request write access unless the client is missing.


OTHER CHANGES TO THE CODE REQUESTED:

The client assumes that it can run a thread on each core that it finds. This may be an incorrect assumption. It's possible that a user would want CPU resources to be reserved for other background applications. The GUI needs a field to specify the maximum number of threads that can be initiated.

When the GUI is terminated, the cruncher processes go with it. They should be separate and unconnected. The GUI needs to be able to start the cruncher processes, but it needs to be able to go away once they're running. It also needs to be able to reconnect to the crunchers, so that it can determine their status, and perform any necessary updates to the internal configuration of the cruncher.

[umccullough]

The client assumes that it can run a thread on each core that it finds. This may be an incorrect assumption. It's possible that a user would want CPU resources to be reserved for other background applications. The GUI needs a field to specify the maximum number of threads that can be initiated.

I agree here - in fact, can you point me to a page that describes how this is done with BOINC projects also? I'm fairly new at BOINC myself, and haven't found that option yet - maybe it's hidden in a config file.

When the GUI is terminated, the cruncher processes go with it. They should be separate and unconnected. The GUI needs to be able to start the cruncher processes, but it needs to be able to go away once they're running. It also needs to be able to reconnect to the crunchers, so that it can determine their status, and perform any necessary updates to the internal configuration of the cruncher.

I prefer the service method - like BOINC supports - where a small management service starts, launches the processes it needs to launch separately, and there is a separate management GUI to communicate with the service/processes via sockets, pipes, or whatever. I prefer that method because I want the power to create a separate user account for each service I run - i find this to be an excellent way of partitioning resources used by DC projects to keep my machines security-savvy. Only the GUI management app needs to be interactive with the desktop.

[russkris]

Team Count up to 23

[mike047]

I put a box on this project yesterday and have had no issues of any kind. I plan on adding more today.

[Universalhat]

"Expiring" work units? I guess I'd best bump the cache on my slow-moving work machine back from 100...

And I'm still waiting on my big huge platform upgrade. One day soon I'll have an X2-4200 working at these, 24/7. Oh my, what a day that will be.

[russkris]

:ninjawel: to ya casey...

[cswchan]

Looks like PI is running out of WUs as well... I managed to download some work the last 3 days or so, but, all I have been getting today was...

[2007.07.11 15:21:38][WARN][DOWNLOAD]No available Work Unit to download

:(

[russkris]

bummer... Hopefully it will get some work soon

[umccullough]

I believe the current project is complete... it was only going to be a ~6 month project anyway.

I'm guessing that JUST will probably prepare new project and client once the results of the current one are processed :)

[Gunslinger]

Most people have cleared their caches now.
There may be the occasional dribble of expiring units, but it is essentially complete (a rarity in the DC field!)

So, back to the old stalwart projects... ;)

:cowboy: