it's dead jim.....

[dicki]

yet another duron bites the dust...obviously it was quite soggy dust as my water cooling broke down yesterday

i came home from work after a very bad day to discover my computer under an inch of water (again) and some serious signs of corrosion going on that lead me to believe the water had been there for at least a day ( i hadn't been home for 2 days)

since then i have powered down and examined the board closely, i can't figure out where the leak started. there wasn't much water covering the computer and there was still plenty in the resovoir and there were no obvious signs of leaking. initially i thought it was the pump leaking but now i believe it was the duron itself leaking i think the corrosive nature of water has broken down the protective nail varnish coating i had applied and allowed water to get under the core, from there i think it has managed to work it's way out through the pins of the chip directly in to the socket (where the worst of the corrosion was) and from there all over the top edge of the board.

obviously i will be cleaning up the board and the chip in the hope that i can ressurect them but if not then i was due a new computer anyway :) i think i will be steering clear of direct cooling next time... i have a nice waterblock machined up and ready to rock and/or roll so i will give that a go next time.

dicki

[Baptizer]

Sorry to hear about the mess that you ran into...hopefully it can be resurrected...........:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[NorthernYankee]

Don't give up on the direct cooling idea. You may get it to wark someday.

--NorthernYankee

[jozzer]

sorry to hear that dicki.......
Mine was getting into trouble too...temps were slowly rising....I dismantled it to find a good blob of calcium growing on the core (despite using distilled water........I think it was picking up stuff from the radiater)

[dicki]

yeah i had quite a serious calcium growth too but the temps stayed good until the end.

i examined the cpu under a magnifying glass and there are actually a load of pins that have come loose and broken away so i am now sure that water went right through the CPU and out through the pins... i tested the mobo and i think it might be okay... all the fans spun up as did hdd and cd i'm going to buy a cheap duron and test it if it doesn't work i'll get a cheap mobo to hold me until christmas when i'll get something good

dicki

[The Therion]

wow, serious damage there dicki :(

looks like that cpu took a bath litterally !

well......now for the important part......




....where were you for 2 days mister ?? :D

[crono]

How does the wb in your direct cooling work? trying to figure out how the water made it to chip. Leaked at the fitting or where the pieces of the wb join and ran down the sides and underneath to the core?

[dicki]

ahhhhh :D thats for me to know ;)

hummm welll..... direct cooling.... is well for lack of a better word.... direct.

there is no water block at all, i glued a bit of old plumbing on to the top of my duron and glued a couple of barbs on to it then sprayed water directly at the core with nothing in between

i did waterproof the top of my chip with nail varnish because i knew there was a gap between the actual cpu and the ceramic base and i didn't want water getting in there, but the nail varnish blistered away (due to heating???) and the water made it's way past the gap and out through the bottom of the chip... i think a waterblock will be used next time... i've just finished machining one... i'll scan it at work next week so you lot can see what i've been up to the big trouble is it weighs about a kilogram befor i even put water in it so i have no idea how the board will support it....

dicki

[crono]

so you glued somekind of copper elbow or straight pipe that touches the core with circulating water, I believe you check my reply to player0 premlim results was doing the same thing in this test except for the boldness you tryed.

[jozzer]

sorry dicki......my Idea.......glad it was only a duron!
I didn't seal my core off, and there is no sign of any water having passed..............come to think of it......there is no direct passage through a tbird......is the duron chip different?
I need to find another liquid to use.....with no risk of corrosion/calcium deposits..........water block cooling is nowhere near as........direct:D

[prokaryote]

Hi guys,

Bummer about the leakage. Thank goodness there wasn't an electrical fire, say in the power supply or wiring. What color was the corrosion build up? I'm not sure that it was a calcium salt, especially if you were using distilled water, it's more probable that it was some sort of Aluminum or copper salt (from the metal traces inside the processor package). Actually there are direct passes through duron or anyother processor once the metal traces inside it corrode away.

The part of the package that the core sits on is not water proof, be it ceramic or molded "plastic". Neither is the epoxy under-fill or most epoxies in general. To prove my point, we will usually bake parts in 150C ovens for 4 hours and then vacuum seal them prior to shipping to customers. The reason is to drive moisture out of the package material so that delamination doesn't occur during surface mount or wave soldering. Also, make sure that you're not using deionized water as it is an outstanding solvent and will eat through copper pipes (and other metals) in no time flat. In the wafer fab we had to have special piping that could withstand the corrosive effects of deionized water.

Careful with the "water proofing" of the core and package surface as this thin layer may have awful heat transfer characteristics, which may explain why it bubbled and blistered over the core. Do you know if this happened right away or over time? Also, did you coat the epoxy fillet's around the edge of the core with varnish as well?

Sorry I can't help with suggesting other liquid mediums to use instead of water. Don't know what effects they would have on the processor package and epoxy. Unfortunately, these packages were not designed to be submersible. However, more power to you if you find a method.

[JMke]

Originally posted by The Therion


looks like that cpu took a bath litterally !


nothing better then cleaning your Intel CPU ;)

http://www.overclockzone.com/benz/cpu/clean/DSC01947.JPG

[prokaryote]

Hi guys,

Regarding direct cooling: Talked to one of my buddies who characterizes chip packages about direct cooling and he suggested a liquid called "Fluorinert" by 3M. It's non-conductive, non-corrosive, low toxicity, has a large enough molecular weight that it shouldn't be absorbed by the CPU package and has good thermal properties. Down side is that it's expensive ($200 maybe per gallon) and I think you can only purchase it from 3M directly. May try a specialty electronics store? It's somewhat viscous so you may need a stronger pump. Oh yeah, you can chill the fluorinert down to like -65C and it's still a liquid. Must be in a sealed system or it will evaporate. Also, it doesn't leave a residue like mineral oil when it dries.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

[The Therion]

JMke is that 100% safe ?

[dicki]

is that flourinet stuff like the stuff they put in transformers or is that just mineral oil? my friend has a couple of gallons of this stuff laying around (he knows someone in the business) i might try and nick some for my next experiment :D

[minty_altoid]

'Ello dicki :D

Old thread I know... but I have decided to lurk once more.....

The goo is available if you want it for stuff, but I seem to recall you saying things along the lines of it "not being right" and definately some passing references to insanity when I talked to you about it....

Than again, maybe it's preferable to having and AMD branded showerhead... :D

MA

PS see you on the 21st Jan if not before

[dicki]

what happens on the 21st?

so have you got a new computer yet?

nihongo wakarimasuka?

hummmm... gunge.... it's a possibility... my new mobo isn't soggy enough yet :D

[minty_altoid]

No new PC yet, but soon... see drooling post in the General Hardware forum ;)

Did pick up a Ti200 which clocks fairly nicely tho'

21st Jan is BuffyCon I.... as far as I remember

good thing about goo is you don't get it leaking onto your mobo, 'cos it's already surrounding your mobo...

MA

PS.

iieh, nihongo wakalimasen.

zen zen wakalimasen.

:D

[GITster]

Stop speaking jibberish :D

alright mate 'ows it going?

[minty_altoid]

'Ello there... I haven't see you for a while... probably scince the end of the summer...

blown anything interesting up lately? :D

[GITster]

Aint blown anything up, but i have torn up you robotic arm for bits :D

[dicki]

did you really need to tear it apart? i thought MA did a pretty good job of that on demo day :D

[minty_altoid]

No disassembly should be required. The leg used EPB-SD-SET (Examiner-proximity-based self-destructing sticklebrick-electronics technology) and as I recall was mainly held together with electrical tape....

so dicki, you got anything to do at work yet?

I shouldn't ask really, but I'm out of fighting distance.... GITster, how's the project? :D

MA

[GITster]

my project? well, the electronics is giving me jip, and the PIC C compiler i have, err, aint. Don't suppose you have a copy of it do you?

[dicki]

work? oh yeah... i remember...

naaa i think they are begining to figure out that i don't do anything except whinge about the network slowing down my browsing :D

[dicki]

not sure if anyone remembers what happened to this poor little motherboard but it lives!

i've just fired it up with an 850 duron, and a 200mb hdd with windows 3.1 installed. i'm just trying to scrounge enough parts to do a decent build. theres life in the old girl yet :D

dicki

[jozzer]

this the mobo that was going mouldy?Impressive:P

[dicki]

yeah the very same, i brushed the worst of the mould and rust off it and it is clocking like a board possesed.

currently at 8.5*124 which is 10mhz higher than i ever got the fsb before, just off out to get some defogger to unlock the bridges this duron has got the laser cuts like the tbirds... morgan core possibly?

oh and my water blocks that i keptgoing on about are ready :o) i'm not sure if i can bring myself to put water near this board again but it does seem to enjoy it...

dicki

[jamers]

dicki -these the things nit sandblasted?? how are you gonna mount em - they weigh a fair bit!

[dicki]

they do don't they :D

well theres 4 holes through the motherboard i was planning on using... all i need to find now is 4 long bolts, some washers (or masking tape) and i'm ready to rock and/or roll

the vid card and northbridge ones will be glued down probably... can't really think of a better way

dicki

[jamers]

these the holes AMD recommend that you dont use?? (sure i read that somewhere)

instead of comming home one day and finding your comp under water, your gonna come home and find a chunk ripped out the mobo :D

though i suppose if you used the supply hoses to take some of the weight (or used a desktop case)....

[dicki]

when did amd say that? the holes are put there specifically for mounting heatsinks, swiftech and alpha both use them and soon so will the dicki special :D

dicki

[GITster]

'dicki special'

don't like the sound of that :eek:

[jamers]

fair nuff - must have been something else then :D

[moonraker]

Just curious here, why are they so heavy?
Couldn't you find any aluminium or are they some monoliths made from solid copper.

[dicki]

yeah it's a 1"*3"*3" hunk of copper with a maze pattern cut into it with a milling machine

i also did 2 bigger ones with the plan of sandwhiching a couple of peltiers but i'm ignoring that project for now

dicki