Best option?

[bubbadog]

Didn't want to hijack pauliscouse's thread, but the discussion raised a question for me. My niece is graduating from high school this year and will need a good system to take to college with her. We discussed it and decided that she and will build her one together as her graduation present. (Talon, I can hear you laughing...stop it!) My qustion...I want something that should give her reasonable performance for the next few years. (Not overclocked) Would I be better off going with a P4 or something like an XP2400?

[mackerel]

In value for performance, it's AMD. Intel benefits are a bit harder to quantify. To me, it's a nicer overall package with fewer problems and better stability.

For office performance, either will provide more than enough performance. At work, I'm still in daily use with a PII 350 MHz. It's adequate, though I wouldn't say no to something more modern :D

Are there any unique features that you think might be appreciated? The attached pic below is my newest toy :) I know my desk is a mess and there's no colour coordination. I will fix it, honest ;)

It's a Shuttle SB51G, a P4 system. It has integrated everything on the motherboard except raid, no real loss since you would find it very hard to shove more than one hard disk in the case reliably. I only have a CD writer in mine. But a combo DVD reader, CD writer is inexpensive. Also add a hard disk, some ram and a CPU and it's a system. I have a seperate video card in mine for decent gaming performance, the integrated setup is ok for office work but not for gamers.

If you pick a quiet hard drive, the system is very quiet. I'm stuck at the moment as I have a noisy video card fan, but that's only an issue if you go for a somewhat high end solution. The CPU cooling is temperature controlled almost silent in my system at the moment.

There is also an AMD/nforce2 Shuttle system on the near horizon, which should be equally nice :)

[Fallguy]

Hmmm,
I would 2nd mackerals suggestion there - the Shuttle cases are very nice, and for a college system being small definately has some advantages (more space for shoes..... lol!). P4 or Athlon really doesn't make vast amounts of difference in price or performance. The Athlon is marginally cheaper, and if you can get an nForce2 motherboard its worth it.

Fallguy

[Fireblade]

you can do this to Shuttles without too much effort as well Bubba...

http://www.walibe.com/open.JPG :thumb:

Believe it or not... that look woz achieved with nothing more complicated than a pic the guy liked, printed out on a decent inkjet printer, then cut to suit. The drive is stealthed using a Lian-Li faceplate ;)


[edit] I hope that pic is showing for the rest of you... it's the dreaded box only for me :rolleyes: If it's the same for everybody, visit www.walibe.com t' see the modded Shuttle :)

[edit 2] it's OK now :confused:

[JDErickson]

You know, I hate to say this as I can see the tomotoes flying now.

Dell has good systems on sale now for under $700 including a flat screen monitor.

For a "normal" computer users this may be the way to go.

http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/offers/specials_3x_special61.htm

http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/offers/specials_m_dimen8250.htm

[mackerel]

annihilator, that's a nice case in that pic.

I thought about doing the same, but not had time yet. The front plate is transparent plastic, so it is easy to put something else behind it. Those electro-luminescent kits are tempting, imagine that pic with backlighting :)

The drive in that pic looks stealthed with the panel that comes with the case. You don't need to raid another one to tweek it :) Well, at least the plastic part and the two screws come with the case, the plate behind it either has had its sides cut off, or recycled from elsewhere.

[bubbadog]

That Shuttle system definitely looks interesting. She's not a gamer (I taught her to shop when she was a little girl; she's world-class now! :D ); I think she is going to need something more geared towards office performance. I'll have to really look at those. As far as the Dells...she's really jazzed about the idea of helping to build her own system, so I'm really rather do that. I just think that it will be good knowledge for her to have.

[Fallguy]

Originally posted by JDErickson
You know, I hate to say this as I can see the tomotoes flying now.

Dell has good systems on sale now for under $700 including a flat screen monitor.

For a "normal" computer users this may be the way to go.

http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/offers/specials_3x_special61.htm

http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/offers/specials_m_dimen8250.htm

Hmmm,
that system may be "cheap" but I wouldn't be happy with the spec. 128MB of RAM, integrated graphics? I hope that motherboard has an AGP slot, because even using office apps the 845GL graphics will suck big time. I also happen to have the same case for my work PC, and it ain't exactly light and/or easy to move (in fact its the heaviest desktop case I have ever used, only surpassed by a 4U rackmount). The processor and HDD are fine for general computing, and I can testify the thing is very quiet running, but I would personally say to bring it up to even minimum standards it'd take a new graphics card (PCI GeForce 2 MX if all else fails) and an extra 512MB of RAM.

Fallguy

[Bursar]

I'd also suggest the Shuttle systems. I've been looking very closely at them recently.

The SB51G is the latest P4 based system, and has support for Hyper Threading as well, so you will have plenty of scope for CPU upgrades.

Shuttle also make replacement front panels that have some EL sheet behind them (so they light up), and dinky little carry bags for the systems as well.

[bubbadog]

Oooh, sounds great! Thanks for the suggestions guys! I'll have to really look at those!

[Fireblade]

Originally posted by mackerel

The drive in that pic looks stealthed with the panel that comes with the case. You don't need to raid another one to tweek it :) Well, at least the plastic part and the two screws come with the case, the plate behind it either has had its sides cut off, or recycled from elsewhere

yeah Mackerel... the front covering is no doubt the perspex which you suggest is supplied wi' the case... he's used that so the picture/photo can be seen... but the metal plate to which the perspex is attached, is definitely a Lian-Li faceplate wi' the lugs cut off (most stealthed drives use this method) ;)

[bubbadog]

I dug around a bit and came across the Shuttle SK41G (http://www.shuttleonline.com/specs2.asp?pro_id=155), which is their AMD compatible version. It appears to sell for about the same price as the P4 compatible one, and will support up to an XP2600+. So now, which would be best for her? P4 or XP2600?

[Fireblade]

heh heh heh... if ye really wanna 'push the boat' out for her, have a look at this (http://www.alienware.com/main/system_pages/navigator-pro.asp) little beaut Bubba :D

[Fireblade]

if it were me personally... I reckon my first ever Shuttle box would also be my first ever P4 based system... simply because I'd be less concerned over cooling in such a small box.

I know this area can be overcome with a bit of thought and attention to detail when putting the rig together, but the P4 itself generates less heat than an Athlon to begin with, so you've less to be concerned if you want to add a decent graphics card - e.g. Ti-4200 ;)

But I haven't looked into the Shuttles in any great detail, and since I don't own one (yet :D), I ain't the best advisor on em :D

[Bozo]

Originally posted by annihilator
heh heh heh... if ye really wanna 'push the boat' out for her, have a look at this (http://www.alienware.com/main/system_pages/navigator-pro.asp) little beaut Bubba :D

That looks very nice :)

Would solve the many arguements here about my pc's all over the place :rolleyes:

[mackerel]

Personally I haven't had the best experiences with Via chipsets in the past, for that reason alone I personally wouldn't go for the SK41. There is an nforce2 version out soon, although I've only heard rumours as to the date it will finally be released. I doubt it will be any time this year.

When you were comparing it to the Intel version, take care as there are the SS51G and SB51G. The "SS" uses a Sis chipset, and the "SB" which I have uses an Intel chipset. The Intel one is slightly more expensive, and will support the HT P4s when the become affordable. The Sis is an older chipset which I don't think will do HT, it's only advantage is support for ATA133 where the Intel does ATA100.

I would strongly recommend adding another video card to replace the integrated solution. If not gaming, the Ti4200 is probably overkill. For a small cool package, a video card with passive cooling would be ideal, especailly for noise performance. What's the fastest nvidia/ATI/other video card which uses passive cooling these days?

[Fallguy]

mackeral,
the current Shuttle cases can't support HT CPUs, primarily because of heat and power limitations. Even if there were 2.4GHz P4's with HT, the extra heat produced would be a problem. I appreciate that the board can support it, but from the spec it looks like the PSU can't.... lol

Funnily enough, if you compare the heat output of the P4 vs the Athlon T-bred B, they are not a million miles away, although the T-bred is harder to cool because of the smalled surface area.

Fallguy

[Bursar]

The SB51G does support Hyper-Threading, and will accept the new 3.06GHz CPU.

Heat could be a problem, but the P4s are pretty good at regulating themselves. If they get too hot, they slow down. It's pretty difficult to burn one up.

Admittedly that's not what you'd want to happen if you sprung the cash for a 3.06GHz CPU, but they will work in a Shuttle.

[bubbadog]

OK, about video cards (since the subject came up!) Any suggestions? I do want something that will allow her to watch a DVD on it for a bit of down time.

[Bursar]

If she's not into gaming, then a GeForce 4 440MX would probably do. Cheap and cheerful :)

Personally I'd go for something with a little more muscle such as the GF4 4200 or 4400. Not top notch in terms of performance, but then you save yourself a pretty penny by staying away from the cutting edge cards.

If you buy a retail product, you should get something like PowerDVD or WinDVD in the box. Going for an OEM card will probably save you a bit more money, but you won't get the extra software with the card.

[mackerel]

Fallguy, the SB51G I have is specified as being able to support a 3 GHz HT P4.

I only have a P4 2.0A in it, which has a design power of about 50W. Current temps running OGR are under 43 C with a room air temp of 15C. The 3 GHz HT model is about 75W. Doing a quick calculation, assuming temp increase over ambient is directly proportional to power output, the CPU temp of the HT would be about 57C, if the conditions remain static. The CPU cooling fan is temp controlled, and at the moment it is hardly spinning, so if things did get hotter it might make a bit more noise but I don't think temps would get much above 60C even in a warm room. For a non-overclocked Intel CPU, temps even in the 60's are no problem.

bubbadog, for video cards, if it isn't a gaming machine I would suggest something that had passive cooling to cut down on noise. But I'm not sure what models fit that description.